David Poplin on Going 95% Government With Over 62 Federal Contracts

00:00 Dan Leibrandt

Hey everyone, and welcome back to Pest Control Legends. I'm your host, Dan Leibrandt, and today I'm with David Poplin, CEO and founder of CDS Services, which is the parent company of Legion Pest Management, which is a service disabled veteran-owned company that handles pest control for 20% of all VA medical centers in the country. David's a marine veteran who's been in the industry for over 30 years. And he co-founded a trade school that trains veterans and others who are unemployed for careers in pest control. In this episode, we're going to talk about breaking into government contracting, hiring and training veterans, and winning large contracts like his deal with A LA Metro. Now without further ado, David, welcome to the show.

00:46 David Poplin

Hey, thanks for having me.

00:48 Dan Leibrandt

Of course, David. So I saw you originally in our Facebook group and I saw you dropping a ton of knowledge and engaging. I've seen you in and out of the industry as this mysterious figure who's who's doing a lot in the space. So I knew I needed to talk to you. And what I wanted to ask you, I'd ask all my guests is, how did you get into pest control initially, which was 30 years ago now?

01:16 David Poplin

That's crazy. I was transitioning out of the Marine Corps and needed a job. So my father was in pest control, but I really didn't have a desire to go into pest control. I wanted to be a police officer. So I was processing for LAPD during some some past riots and I was in the process of getting hired and going through that last final stage of that, but I still needed a job to support my family. So I ended up getting hired by a pest control company and working that while I'm in the process of being hired as a police officer. Well that didn't that actually ended up falling through because of some hiring freezes and so forth. So I ended up staying longer in pest control than I anticipated. And then thirty something years later, I'm still here.

02:09 Dan Leibrandt

Wow, that's incredible. So your dad was originally in the industry, you didn't think you were gonna stay in it. Then what was the point where you then ended up starting your company?

02:23 David Poplin

Well, I think after several years of being in it, I realized there's great opportunity here. There's, lots of opportunity, whether you want to be just an employee of a company, whether you want to be an owner of an of a company. But in anywhere in between, there's just so many different different positions within our industry. And being as stable and as essential as it is, I just saw the opportunity and decided, no, this is what this is where I want to stay.

02:55 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm, awesome. And also I'd like to dive into your veteran background. So were you in pest control before you became a veteran? Or what age were you a veteran and how long did that last?

03:07 David Poplin

Well I was in the Marine Corps at an early age, right after high school. So instead of going to college after school, I decided, hey, I'm gonna join the Marines and defend our country. I really didn't have the money to go to school and then didn't really have the support from my parents. So it really was a the only option I really had. So after serving, I just did one tour. And during that tour I was had had some some injuries that that I carry on to this to this day and it's just part of the process of serving our country. When I got out again I was looking for something, I wanted some stability and wanted to go that process, again being a police officer. But then I realized, the pest control part I is such a viable and opportunity and so reward rewarding and there's so much opportunity here. So I decided to s stay in and didn't really utilize my military veteran status until 2017 when I realized, hey man, I got some opportunities here that I didn't realize that I had that that I can use the set aside and register my company with SBA and as well as the at back then the veteran Department of Veteran Affairs to give me some incentives and opportunities to win these contracts.

04:55 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm, definitely. Well, I first want to say on behalf of myself and the audience that thank you for your service. We really appreciate it. I feel like the pest control industry is fairly has a good amount of veterans. And I just I really respect it. I think that's part of why this industry has a lot of good, trustworthy people. And I think it's fitting because it's almost America's two hundred and fiftieth birthday in I don't know, a few a few weeks.

05:22 David Poplin

Well, I appreciate that. It's honorable and I'd do it again.

05:25 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah. Love to hear it. You said opportunities that came with being a veteran. So maybe someone that's watching this a vet is a veteran or they have friends that are a veteran. What opportunities did you get? What business opportunities are you talking about?

05:40 David Poplin

Well, when y if your business is owned and operated by a service-disabled veteran-owned business and they have to own fifty one percent of that business, then they qualify to get it certification now through the SBA. It's almost similar to a woman owned business or an ADA program, but it's a special certification where agencies within the federal government and even at the state level, focus on giving businesses toward those to those companies that have that set aside or that that certification.

06:17 Dan Leibrandt

Mm. Okay, cool. So every veteran listening to this then should definitely take advantage of this. Is there any special process or is it hard to do that?

06:29 David Poplin

Well, it is a an intense process. Can take several months to do it. But again, you have to be the owner of that entity. You can't be an employee. You have to be the owner. And typically it's a s standalone company, it can't be a franchise. Although there are some some opportunities with franchises, but mostly more for the standalone companies and again having at least owning fifty one percent of that that business and being actively involved.

07:03 Dan Leibrandt

Got it. Cool. So I know you're really involved in commercial work and government work. Just to first get some understanding of where you're at, what percent are you commercial versus residential and is a lot of that commercial government work? Are you doing any residential?

07:23 David Poplin

That's a great question. Prior to 2017, I was a hundred percent residential and commercial. Then I changed my business model over to the government side and saw the focus there and really my initial goal wasn't to be in such the level that w we've grown to, but was more just to have some, some few contracts and be, have some stability. And it's been crazy as to this day, we have over sixty two federal government contracts. And I saw the change where it's it took up so much of my attention and focus to do this because the reward was there. And so I'm not saying anything's wrong with the residential side. It's just that our business model focused on the government side and therefore the rewards and the benefits were there. So it was better for us to focus on that level. So right now we're probably about 95% government.

08:28 Dan Leibrandt

Wow. I don't know if I've ever heard any other company doing that. That's super rare and unique. T so tell me when you made that switch and what was the first government contract you got?

08:34 David Poplin

It is.

08:41 David Poplin

Wow. So I d I 2017, 2018, I'm getting older and I'm like, okay, I really don't want to be in a truck pulling hose, crawling sub-areas and attics. I just can't physically because of my condition. So it was like, what could I do? And so through my brainstorming I realized, I need to get check out this government contracting and see if we can't, take on some of those and then I could focus on that and still run my residential. So in about 2017, 18, we started focusing on that. And I really went all in right around then, and it almost took me nine months. Now, nine months doesn't seem like a long time, but when you go all in on a on a on a goal or a mission or a plan, and you're investing, you take a lot of your savings and investment, say, I've got to make this work. We went nine months. Working twelve hour days, sometimes, five, six, seven days a week, just putting bids out, and I wasn't winning. And I was getting frustrated, but it was nine months, I was like, I'm gonna do this is gonna happen, I'm gonna make this happen. And it took nine months to get our first contract of doing this full time.

09:59 David Poplin

And then after that first contract, then it just seemed like wow. And then another one two weeks later and then another one, three, it was like w I don't know what it was, but all the before you knew it we had, six or seven contracts a year in. And I was like, this is well beyond what I thought. Because my original goal was four. Let me have four government contracts and I'll be happy and that it brings some stability to our company and my life and my family. And so that was my initial goal and now I sit back today and it's like, wow.

10:36 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah. No, sixty two now is incredible. So also so how did you get that first contract? You're you're grinding away for you said nine months. I what flipped the switch? Did was there anything particular you did?

10:51 David Poplin

No, it was just being more learning the process, learning being being compet competitive. A lot of people have this misconception that it's always about price with the with the government. And that is true to a point, but I've been warded a handful of contracts where I was not the lowest bidder. And that goes off our they're going off of our experience, our capability, our CPARS reportings and so forth. So y although price is important, it's not the end determining factor with with the government.

11:32 Dan Leibrandt

Okay. And so now you've got tons of government contracts. Is a good amount of that referral based? There's pieces of the government or I guess government buildings and such referring work to other parts of the government?

11:50 David Poplin

Well, w what's happening now is because we've been so stable and have so many of the market share and really getting, known out there is we get a lot of the government agencies reaching out to us, asking us about certain opportunities and presenting that to us before it hits the open market. Some of are fit, some of aren't and we evaluate and check on and determine whether or not we want to move forward. But it's nice being in that position where they're reaching out to you, not only on state side, but internationally as well.

12:25 Dan Leibrandt

Hm, okay. Got it. So a lot of my audience is like where you used to be, which is maybe you're eighty, ninety, a hundred percent residential. And I'm sure maybe most people listening to this haven't done any government work. So can you talk about the difference between residential and government? How how do those differ? Hey guys, Dan Leibrandt here. Real quick, if you're a pest control owner looking to grow, I have two amazing resources for you. Number one is our free Pest Control Millionaires Facebook group. We have over 4,000 owners just like you in our community and would love for you to be a part of it. Go search Pest Control Millionaires on Facebook and request to join the group now. Number two is our book, Zip Code Kings. This was authored by me, Jonas Olson, and Jake Sheldon to be the ultimate guide to pest control marketing. We discuss everything from branding and traditional marketing to local SEO and Facebook ads. Go to Amazon and search Zip Code Kings to get your copy today. Now that being said, let's get back to the show.

13:28 David Poplin

Well, I would say that the big difference is the government brings stability. And what I mean by that is it's year-round pest control. So even in some areas back east where you have three feet of snow on the ground, they're still doing their pest control services. And in fact, during the COVID era that we all went through, I actually grew 20% during that period. I had zero contracts be put on hold. I had zero stop services. So it really proved a point that we are an essential industry, and our services went on without any hiccups whatsoever. So the real difference is stability. Now it's not the all-end and the business model doesn't fit everybody because there are some requirements, coming with the federal government and even state and so forth, they have a little more higher expectations. So they may have required response times where homeowners, yeah, they're eager and wanting to get their, their ants or their bed bugs taken care of, there's a little more understanding there, where the federal government, you may have a Pacific response time required to deal with those. So in terms of having that stability year round, even during winter months, there are some, there are some trade-offs that you have to, that you have to understand.

15:11 Dan Leibrandt

Hm. Okay. Would you say government work is better than other commercial work, maybe hotels or restaurants or anything else?

15:20 David Poplin

I prefer it. Again, one of the misconceptions that we hear out there is it's a lot of paperwork, and that is true, and slow pay. That is not true. The government does have your documents that you have to sign and they have to be, you have to cross the cross the t's dot the eyes, check the boxes, and if you don't do it appropriately, yeah, it's it could delay payment. However, we've gotten so good at our processing where 70% of all of our contracts typically pay within 15 days. So the cash flow is amazing.

16:08 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Okay. And that's are they paying for the year up front?

16:14 David Poplin

No, we typically only b most of them you bill monthly and in the rear. So you complete the month and then you b you bill after.

16:25 Dan Leibrandt

Okay. Interesting. And I believe I saw somewhere that you guys are well, so first let me ask this. Are you guys operating in just one state? Are you multi state now?

16:37 David Poplin

Well, we are we operate throughout the United States. We are currently we are currently licensed in multiple states, typically for solicitation reasons only. And then we partner up with other pest control companies around the nation and hire them as our subcontractor.

16:42 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right.

16:59 Dan Leibrandt

Mm. Okay, so that's how you're doing it. So you're you're contracting others, but yet you have the trust with the governments.

17:08 David Poplin

That is correct.

17:09 Dan Leibrandt

Okay, interesting. Okay. Something else I want to cover, which is adjacent to this, is so specifically you have 20% of the VA medical centers, which that's veteran veteran affairs medical centers across the US. So how did you do that? How'd you land all those?

17:31 David Poplin

Well again it started with getting the first couple, earning their trust, getting some high CPARS ratings, which is report cards from the government. And after you do that and you start bidding on other projects, then you get you get these contracting officers that are referring you to other projects. They're providing references and referrals. To other contracting officers. And so when you go out there and you do a job, they refer you.

18:05 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Got it. That's simple. And it's just like that with with any part of the pest control business.

18:12 David Poplin

Exactly it is. So it's important to not only it's important to do a good job because that's what they look for and even more so with this a current administration, they're really focusing on on contracting that's done by contractors that are rated good.

18:34 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Okay. Yeah, you said because I want to get clear on how you land these guys and how you keep them. So you said you have to do a good job, but I want to get tactical on that. What constitutes a good job? Is that is it that you're super responsive or that you get rid of all the pests in a promptly manner? What do they really look for and what constitutes a good job?

18:59 David Poplin

Well really what constitutes is what they're looking for is that you're following the scope of work. That's why it's real important during the initial bidding process that you understand the scope of work, that you challenge and question areas that you don't understand or that aren't clearly outlined. But it's important to understand that because that's what they're gonna use as the guidelines to rate you. And one of the things they look at is responsiveness, whether it be on site, but also do you communicate well? And that's one of the things that we've I've really pushed my company to be to do better at than what I've seen in the past. Because I've seen a lot of in the past where there wasn't relationships, there wasn't follow up, there wasn't follow through. And I changed that. At least with my contracts is, when we typically get a response from the government asking for whatever it may be, we're responding within the hour during business hours. And that's unheard of in government contracting.

20:14 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And you also mentioned that pretty much all this work is subcontracted. So you're using these other pest control companies admit maybe, if you go to let's say Chicago and then you find a company in Chicago that can do the work. How do you find a trusted partner? What do you look for in those people?

20:39 David Poplin

Really good question is I like to run first we offer we look for veteran-owned companies if we can because I'd love not nothing more than to partner with a veteran-owned company or a company that has veterans in it. So that's one of the first things that that we shoot for. But we're also looking for, family owned companies, small businesses that are that are trying to grow. We do have to match them with the size of project that we're doing. We never will put a partner in a position for failure. We want them to succeed. And so we'll never let them buy it off more than they can chew. So we kinda each each opportunity is different. And based on the frequency of services, the responsibilities and the scope of work, we'll try to find the best partner that that's gonna match, and be able to perform.

21:40 Dan Leibrandt

Okay, cool. I love the emphasis on, veteran owned, family owned, that kind of thing. I feel like I a good amount of soul has been taken out of this industry. I don't wanna maybe talk bad about private equity or anything, but I there are a lot of private equity people coming in the space and other people that are just trying to take as much money as possible and it feels like they're they're taking the I don't wanna bad mouth, but I've you've probably seen this too, where w we wanna do everything we can to elevate the small guy and the companies that are family owned. Maybe they just have a few employees. Maybe it's just, a husband, a wife, and their their two kids on the staff. And, that that's like we'd love to elevate something like that.

22:30 David Poplin

And that's exactly what I focus on is I it's my way of giving back to giving back, giving back to our industry. Because I was there. I was the one man operation that grew slowly and grew it to, as as we a couple technicians. And so I understand the pain struggles. I understand the growth struggles, all that and the difference it makes. And it's nothing more rewarding to give an opportunity to a teaming partner that will bring stability for five years, because most of the federal government contracts are five years. And it's nothing more rewarding to see the growth and see where they've added vehicles, they've see the where they've added equipment. Added staffing and said that, I've taken my level, my company from this to this. And it maybe not all be a direct result of our partnership, but it helped contribute to that foundation and that structure. And there's to me there's nothing more rewarding than that.

23:39 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah. No, in that case they're literally changing lives. You give this maybe one big government contract that that is completely changed a business.

23:49 David Poplin

It can. It very can. And to bring that s like we talked about earlier about the stability, where in some some states, l let's be real, they in the winter months they slow down because of the weather. And there's not a lot of general pest services going on. Where with these government contracts, that that changes where it's a set routine, whether it be a weekly service, a monthly service or whatever it may be. It's ongoing. It doesn't change. And in the impact of those weather, it brings and allows that opportunity to have those services and generate that revenue during those periods.

24:25 Dan Leibrandt

Gotcha. Something else I wanted to ask. And I would assume that you're dealing with a lot of different kinds of government buildings, but is there some main types of pests that you're usually dealing with?

24:39 David Poplin

There there's no really main types. It's all pests. And we're dealing with medical centers, we're dealing with bases, and just commercial property that the government owns. So anything, anything that we all we all deal with, your your ants, your spiders, your rodents, your bed bugs, your mosquitoes, all those insects, are the same insects we deal with across the board.

25:02 Dan Leibrandt

Okay, cool. Yeah, I was doing some research on you and I think I saw that you guys are pretty heavy on bed bug and termite. Is that right?

25:11 David Poplin

We do both, yes, that is correct.

25:14 Dan Leibrandt

Okay. And talk to me about doing termite control on a big government government building. How do you do that?

25:21 David Poplin

Well, we've it's typically the same way, just on a bigger magnitude, we fumigate we fumigated several federal facilities. We've got one state going on next month, I believe. But it's the s it's the same magnitude as as you do with the regular termites with our industry, there there's spot applications, there's full structure applications. A lot of the big differences is there's not a lot of warranty focus on with the government. They want you, for the one year or maybe through and then just manage it through your contract period. But it's really not as as focused as it is in the residential market. However, our our company, we try to monitor it the and have the same structure. It's perform the services, quality service, follow the label, do it right, document. Because the government doesn't really like renewal processes and ongoing services, they'd rather rather have one-time services. For the most part. But there are some, where they add termites within their their contract and you gotta cover the spot treatments during that period.

26:47 Dan Leibrandt

Okay, cool. Another question I just thought of is so you do all kinds of different government buildings. But do you have one that's your favorite or that's best? Like you mentioned, I think...

27:07 David Poplin

Well, one one of the I have to go with the veterans, Department of Veteran Affair in the medical centers just because it's the veterans are in my heart and I truly love serving our veterans. And when I go on site to a lot of these, which I attend quite quite frequently and just see that that the impact that, we're providing our pest control services. To bring safety to our veterans is just so impactful and so meaningful and to me it's just I it's the most rewarding. So I would have to say servicing our our medical centers is probably the most rewarding for me.

27:55 Dan Leibrandt

Love that. I also wanted to ask you another comparison question. So now you're subcontracting, but you did have employees for doing residential work before. So how does that compare? I because for some more context here, I feel like most owners that I talk to, they don't subcontract at all. It's always that they have a certain amount of technicians, maybe they're part-time or full-time. So I what is the benefit to subcontracting? And what are the pros and cons?

28:27 David Poplin

Well, just to have a clear understanding, I do have employees under our company and we typic right now we have around twenty one employees and probably forty subcontractors. And so we do some s some stuff in house and perform services typically and all with the government. Anything in the in the California, especially the Southern California area is done in house and then outside that area is partnered up in and subcontracted. And so w we treat our subcontractors are like teaming partners, kinda our employees and we try to build the same type of relationship. It's all about communication and expectations and again setting them up for for success. And so working alongside and understanding their goals and their desires so we can help, a achieve that. And typically when I, when I partner up with someone and things are going well, we kinda give them those those respect of saying, okay, anything that comes in your area, you got first dibs. Tell us, here's what this is what the opportunity is, and you tell us whether or not you want to do it and you'll get that first opportunity. First right of refusal, as they say. But that's something that we do. So it's important to treat the subcontractors just like we do our employees. It's it they're th they're people just like us.

30:02 Dan Leibrandt

Mm. Yeah, definitely. Okay. That my bad. I got the context wrong. So you already have a lot of employees yourself, but you also have a lot of subcontractors. Yeah.

30:11 David Poplin

That that is correct, yeah.

30:14 Dan Leibrandt

That's so cool. Yeah, talk to me about scaling up your employees then. So you started out w when did you start the company again?

30:26 David Poplin

I started the company in 2013. We didn't go federal or government contracting until right around 2018.

30:34 Dan Leibrandt

Okay. Okay. You started in twenty thirteen, about thirteen years ago. So talk to me about scaling up your employees from going just solo to around twenty employees. What were those first few hires and what was that like?

30:50 David Poplin

Well the f the first few hires were more of a on on the field level technicians, specialty operators like termite technicians and so forth. And then I had to really think about yeah, I need a structure for for management. I need a structure for admin and support. And so I've gone through a couple of phases to where we're structuring and that's kinda what I'm doing now too is I'm restructuring because we've grown so much. I need to restructure my management team and add another layer of senior management so that we can provide the services that they along with our mission statement and do the best we can. So that's where we're at now is restructuring our our senior leadership and management level and adding another layer.

31:45 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Yeah, I want to ask you more about that because I think most people watching this show either are smaller owners, maybe they have a pest control or maybe even lawn care adjacent business under a million dollars a year. Maybe they're around 200k to 500K, or maybe they're just starting, or they're just about to start. So with restructuring, how are you thinking about restructuring? And did you wish you did it sooner?

32:16 David Poplin

Well that that's a really great question. And one of the things I've learned is you can't wait. You can get buried really quickly if you don't plan ahead. And this is whether you're doing a one-two-man operation or you're doing a scale like ourselves. It really doesn't matter. You can't wait till you need it before you get it. You gotta plan ahead. And that, sometimes that's easier said than done, but you have to make those investments and plan ahead to help ensure that you don't have that breakdown. In structure. And I got caught off guard at the beginning of that, to be truthfully honest. And I've learned now, so I'm always looking a year, year and a half in a in advance and trying to plan that far out based on our growth. And so where before I waited till okay, I need it now. Now I start looking and realize, my gosh, it takes a couple of months to get that right person. Now I'm now I'm trolling it and that's never a good a good thing.

33:29 Dan Leibrandt

Mm. Yeah, definitely. So w what does that look like specifically in your company? Do you have a few managers and the rest technicians and maybe some CSRs?

33:42 David Poplin

Yeah, what I have several account managers. I wanna s I'm going off memory here. Six or seven account managers that just manage me help me manage the government contracting. And then we have our contract development side, which goes out there and seeks for opportunities and looks for opportunities. Then we have our leadership team. And right now it's I have three senior leaders under myself and we really need to expand that and add that extra layer so that we can move the responsibilities around to ensure that we deliver and meet our expectations.

34:25 Dan Leibrandt

Gotcha. So you've got three leaders right now. You said you want to expand, get more leaders. What are some of the key traits that you look for in those leaders?

34:38 David Poplin

Well right now I'm looking myself I'm looking for a VP of operations and so I'm looking for an individual that has industry experience, that has management experience on the branch level level where they can, read P&Ls, they can create action plans, they understand how to move people. They understand how to, support customers on on a larger level. And so that's where for that kind of position. And then you just kinda you need to figure out what the position is and then what kind of requirements there gonna be that you're gonna expect from them and then build a I just lost my train of thought, but build a job description around that.

35:32 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Okay. Did you learn this structure from anyone or did you just figure it out as you went?

35:39 David Poplin

Well, a little bit of both. I started off with in the industry I've worked for, a handful of companies. One of those companies was Terminix. Even though sometimes, they get a bad rap in our in our industry, they do have a great training program and you gotta get to see, as a as a manager and with them I got to see a lot of opportunities and a lot of structure and models as such and so that along with learning along the way and self-teaching and so forth. They really didn't have a lot of the companies and the resources that we have today in our industry. Like your program, a lot of the Facebook programs. Man, I wish those were around back when I started because I'd be 10, 15 years ahead of myself now.

36:41 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Yeah. No, it's like what I see is that it's not people are incompetent or they're not willing to work. It's just that there's a certain knowledge gap. It's just it's whether you know how to structure a company or not. It's whether you know how to generate leads or not. It's just there's an information gap.

37:01 David Poplin

Th that is correct. And I think in our industry a lot of guys try to wear the try to wear multiple hats. And I think it's real important that we do what we do good at and outsource the rest. Whether that be, marketing, bookkeeping, or whatever it may be, we're we're not the best social media people, so outsource that. Let's focus on the things we're good at doing pest control, doing management, doing growth and that kind of things, and let somebody else do what they're good at. And I see it a lot real real often where some some of our PCOs try to do everything.

37:45 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Yeah, I see that all the time. And that's how they don't grow is because if you're doing every single task in the business and you're solo, and what's the biggest you can get to? Maybe three hundred K or four hundred K a year, but that you're bound to cap out. You need people to help you.

38:03 David Poplin

Not not only will you cap out, but I believe you'll slow yourself down. You will slow your growth down because you're so focused on that on a minute scale when it when if you did had someone else do it can actually grow you more faster and the money you think you're saving you're losing in revenue. And that's what I've learned ear early on. So you can't be afraid to outsource. Even though yeah, it means opening up a budget and opening the checkbook to do that, I can tell you that's probably the one of the best advices I can give is outsource.

38:41 Dan Leibrandt

Mm, definitely. I wanted to ask you about Terminix since you mentioned that. So you worked at Terminix and I think I saw something was it that you managed a branch with five million in revenue or something like that?

38:54 David Poplin

I was a sales manager in the LA region and we were doing unbelievable. We had our termite budget was, four or five hundred thousand dollars a month. And that was just one branch. And so the way Terminix was is whatever you sold that month they wanted, they want the next year they wanted twenty percent over that. And so it's like came to a point, it's like, how do you grow it so much? And it was so funny where if our region in our branch had a bad month, the entire company had a bad month because Southern California wa was a was a large portion of Terminix's. Now this is back in I'm not sure if it's the same today, but this is, back in early, two thousand one, two thousand two ish,...

39:41 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you, being at Terminix managing that or being a sales manager, what did you learn there?

39:52 David Poplin

I learned fast growth. I learned that I didn't really understand the door knocking till I was with them. And that's one of the reasons why once I left them I wanted to partner up with or work for a company that did the door to door because I wanted I was intrigued. I wanted to get h how are they so successful? What's I wanted to get the inside. And the only way to do that is either work for a company or do it yourself. And so I elected to work for a company and in and get that inside information. But I learned a lot with the Terminix about the door-to-door. I learned some somewhat about the government. Didn't really understand the set-asides then as I do now, but I understood some because we had some government contracting. And then I learned about all the reports and the termite damages, claims, and so forth that you need to be aware of and understand.

40:55 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's crazy. I saw someone in post in our Facebook group, I don't know, maybe a few days ago, saying, I don't know how anyone makes money in door to door. No one answers their doors, and people are so fed up with this. And yet, I do this podcast and I interview a lot of successful pest control owners like yourself. And almost all the guys that I talk to that are above five or ten million dollars a year, they're all doing some amount of door to...

41:26 David Poplin

You almost have to if you're gonna have that growth level. And it's the key thing is just understanding the program. Most people don't understand the program. And believe it or not, it's here to stay. Even with all the regulations that we're seeing in some, some regions, blocking off requiredo permit, doing, and in the bad thing. Yeah, there's th there's bad people in every industry, but not all of them are bad. And so they're growing. I know when I was involved, our biggest biggest year in this, what was we're talking a three and a half month period. We took on 6,500 customers. 6,500 customers in three and a half months. We're talking 125 new starts a day. You imagine the fast pace? It was so fast. I you didn't even have time to think. It was it was crazy. So just setting yourself up, I it's important if you want to go that that level, you have to have some type of structure like that and some type of door to door cells if you wanna grow to that level.

42:41 Dan Leibrandt

Mm. Yeah, definitely. Wow, that is that is insane. That is so many jobs. And you're right. I'm not the biggest fan of door to door. I personally don't want people like knocking at my door, but I get it. And I think there is still an ethical way to do it. I don't think it has to be people like shoving the sail down your throat and to do anything. I think it can be friend friendly. It can be helpful. Pests are a genuine issue. If someone doesn't have a pest control company, they actually do have health concerns and maybe they could get some kind of disease or maybe, termites could be eating away at their house. These are serious issues. It's like it part of it just comes down to actually caring about people.

43:26 David Poplin

And that's so true. And I think one of the things the misconception in our industry, in my opinion, is we feel we own these customers. And we don't. So I've always preached is you gotta have a relationship. If you have a relationship relationship with your customer, they're not gonna cancel the relationship. But if they don't know you, and someone comes knocking on their door looking for work, they're gonna be like, hey, it's a better deal. I'm gonna go with the better deal. They're not gonna relate to their technician and know that they have a child in the local s community in the school, they're not gonna cancel that relationship if they know it. But it's the ones that don't rel work on the relationship and think that they own the customer and you don't own the customer. You have to keep earning their business. It's repetitive. It's not a one one and done. It's constantly. And so that one time they need you need to deliver because that will go so much farther.

44:31 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah. I totally agree. And I want you to expand on that. So building the relationship with that customer, how do you build a relationship with them and ensure that they don't leave?

44:44 David Poplin

The biggest thing is communication. You can actually communicate effectively and have killing bugs as a secondary and be rated very well. It's all about communication.

45:03 Dan Leibrandt

Hm. So...

45:04 David Poplin

It's all about delivering what they expect.

45:07 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah, yeah, definitely. No, I've noticed this as well. Really across businesses and industries, people wanna feel cared for even above an actual good service. If it just seems like maybe you are doing an incredible service, but you're being mean to the customer and you're coming late and you're not explaining what you're doing and all this, well, it doesn't matter how good of a job you're doing if you can't communicate it properly and be consistent.

45:43 David Poplin

That is so true. If you're just showing up and not knocking on the door and doing the exterior service in ten minutes and being out and hanging the ticket on the door, then you're not building that relationship. And you're not building the importance of your service. And so...

46:00 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah. Well I think this is especially so key now because I've done a lot of thinking on like what will AI replace? I it seems like AI continues to replace different things. Maybe it's just doing very low level tasks right now, but it'll continue to increase. And I think one of the things that AI will never replace is relationships. So I think you hit the hail the nail on the head on this that maybe there's a robot technician that can come to your house in the future or something, but you still keep that company because you have they've been servicing your house for five years and you love, Dave or Dan or whoever's servicing the house.

46:40 David Poplin

That's exactly it. And yeah, you the you have to you may have to change technicians, but as long as you're educat communicating that and saying that they're working together and they're part of the company and we're all one big happy family and sharing that, that's gonna be fine. But it's continuously building that relationship and communicating them, when there's a problem and being responsive when they need you.

47:02 Dan Leibrandt

For sure. One of the last things I want to cover with you, David, which I know you're so passionate about, is your trade school that you have. So you have a trade school, and of course you could explain it better than me, but you are training veterans and other people who may not have a job or have unfortunate circumstances to get in the pest control industry and build a career. Can can you talk about that and how you got into that?

47:32 David Poplin

Yeah, well I was I wasn't the founding member of that. I w I joined two years ago as a partner, 'cause I saw the need. One, it's a program that that's certified by the government, both federal and state. It focuses on finding opportunities, pest control opportunities for our transitioning military. So when they're getting out, putting them in, and we all know that our industry, although it's one of the greatest industries around, we don't do a lot of marketing to really anybody to bring them in. So a lot of people don't understand our industry and don't realize the opportunities that are there. So one of the things I liked about this trade school is it offered that. It's okay, it had a contract with the VA and it focused on transitioning military out and teaching them to become in our industry, getting them licensed or industry. And what more is it not to have a military person in our industry? They're they're they're structured. They're on time, they got all these these skills that we love and that make a technician very successful. And so having that just makes it a win-win for our industry. But not only that, just bringing people in areas. We need staffing in our industry. There is a shortage across the nation. And it's not because people don't want to do pest control, it's because they just don't realize that there's opportunity there.

49:13 Dan Leibrandt

Mm-hmm. So part of it is just getting the word out. I feel like that people are so confused on the career path and where to go. And at least my advice to people that especially young people, because I'm fairly young myself, is like get involved in home services in some way, whether you're a technician, whether you're in marketing, operations, there's a huge opportunity in home services, and of course that includes pest control that not many people are taking advantage of. And it's these these unsexy industries like pest control that have the most opportunity.

49:49 David Poplin

It's not a job, it's a career. And that's what we as an industry need to do better at is showing the career paths and showing people you can live that American dream. Working in the pest control industry. You can buy that house, you can buy those cars, you can put your kids, in college. There is so much opportunity here in showing them that and letting them see that this is a true career path. And so having this trade school, we can do that and we show that. So not only is that trans what's it?

50:23 Dan Leibrandt

Hm. So what would be no, go ahead.

50:28 David Poplin

So not only veterans but we focus on people that are underemployed or unemployed, and so we show them that, hey, there's an opportunity here. We get license and we connect them with companies that need good technicians.

50:41 Dan Leibrandt

Hm, definitely. I wanted to ask. So may maybe a veteran who's just stepping into the industry, he wants to get involved. You said that there is a great career path. Can you explain the ideal or a great career path that they can pursue? Is that that they start as a technician and now they're a manager and now what does that look like?

51:05 David Poplin

Well obviously getting, education and experience is power. And so learning about our industry at the at the bottom level is very important. Get involved and not just focus on one side, but try to learn both termite and pest because and wildlife because that's all keep your focus on everything. Because you may not utilize that now, but later on a door may open and it's like now I've got that experience, I can step right in. So in our industry, getting licensing, encouraging yourself to get licensed, even though some states don't require it, they require, they allow you to work under the qualifying operator or the QA or whatever or the CA, whatever it's called, but don't allow that to stop yourself. Get yourself license. There's nothing saying you can't get license, but just starting off as a pest technician, maybe going into an inspector, maybe going into to office position, leadership, and then eventually maybe into entrepreneurship. There's just so much opportunity here. Whatever level you want, I'm sure you can find a position in our industry.

52:19 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, and especially on the entrepreneur angle. If someone is super ambitious, pest control could definitely be the industry for you. Like it you wouldn't think there's many. You think of maybe just an Orkin and may maybe a few other companies. There are many, many decad of millionaires in this space. I know countless people doing over ten million dollars a year with their company. You could sell that for thirty million dollars. That's a lot of money.

52:46 David Poplin

It is and it and it all started most of us started with the one, So you gotta start somewhere but understanding that our industry is a career and there's definitely career paths here.

52:58 Dan Leibrandt

Love that. Well, cool, David. This has been a great podcast. I want to ask you a question that I ask all of my guests at the end of the show. And that is, what is your message to the pest control owners out there? Well, what do you want to tell them? What do you think they need to know?

53:14 David Poplin

That's a great question. Set goals, put action plans in place and hold yourself accountable. And don't let anybody stop you from achieving.

53:28 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. So good. Love that. Well, thank you, David. I really appreciate that wisdom and your time on the show. Where can people find you online and connect with you?

53:39 David Poplin

I'm on Facebook. In a lot of the groups. They can always search us out the CDS Services Inc. And they could re re reach me, I don't know if it if you want me to provide a telephone number or...

53:59 Dan Leibrandt

No, you don't need to. Cool. Yeah, so definitely go follow David on Facebook. You can just search up David Poplin and the link will be in the description as well. Go check out his company website if you're interested in what he does. And yeah, that'll that'll be all. So thanks again so much for coming on this show, David. I really had a good time and it was great learning from you.

54:20 David Poplin

I appreciate it. Thank you.

54:22 Dan Leibrandt

Course. YouTube has this crazy feature where its algorithm knows the perfect next episode you should watch. So click right here and watch it now. Just click it. Click, click, click.