Brian Lunsford on Buying His Dad's Pest Control Company and Starting Over With Kingfish

00:00 Dan Leibrandt

Hey everyone and welcome back to Pest Control Legends. I'm your host, Dan Leibrandt, and today I'm with Brian Lunsford, owner and CEO of Kingfish Pest Control in Jacksonville, Florida. Brian is a second generation operator. In 2005, he and his brother bought their dad's pest control company with just a couple employees and grew it into a hundred-person PCT Top 100 business before selling it to Terminix in 2019. Then he started over with Kingfish alongside several other successful home service businesses. LunsPro Inspections and JoyLights. In this episode, we're going to talk about growing to a Terminix exit without knocking a single door, also using the realtor channel to drive pest leads and what it's like to build a company from scratch after you've already sold one. Now without further ado, Brian, welcome to the show.

00:50 Brian Lunsford

Thank you for having me.

00:50 Dan Leibrandt

Of course, man. So I want to jump back to the beginning of your journey. How did you initially get involved with your dad's pest control company?

00:58 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, so interesting story. I was doing television and let me just first say thanks for having me on. We a lot of this stuff I've said on other podcasts. So I do wanna I'll quickly touch on this, but I wanna get into some other stuff that you have for me, but I'll give you a quick quick overview. I was in television, I was a producer of the Fox affiliate in Atlanta, having a great time. Realized that that's not really my calling necessarily, although I love journalism. Yeah, I wasn't married with kids yet and I was in my late teens, early twenties, and I moved into my twenties and post-college life was doing the television thing in Atlanta, top ten market. And I was having a really good time with it for the most part. I was checking a lot of boxes of dreams that I had, being in NFL locker rooms and major league baseball fields and all these cool things. But it just wasn't fulfilling. It was just there was something missing. And so my brother, who you mentioned earlier, he and I moved down to the Virgin Islands, down to St. John. And we worked in a little diner. He had also graduated college and we had a really good time down there. But I remember seeing like the New York skyline on TV, and I was like, man, I just had that, and my brother would probably say the same thing. Like, we just had this urge to do something else. So for me, I was down there six months, made my way back to Atlanta. My dad had a small pest control company at the time. He had actually moved down to Florida, so he was kind of running it remotely. This is the 2005 range, and rest is history man we realized my brother and I realized there was there was definitely some value there although it needed a lot of work it needed a website it needed some modernization it needed some some TLC it needed some customer care and so we didn't know what we were getting into we just jumped in and we did it all the first few months and then realized we're probably better suited behind the desk behind the computer where we're we're a little more talented than out in the field and so the cool thing is we got to try all that out there, realize we're not that good at it, and we need somebody much better and more efficient out there than us. So we get behind the computer and then we start building from there. And again, that's the quick reasoning how I got into the pest control industry. And honestly, man, when I got in there and started looking and kind of opening the curtain a little bit and really digging into that industry, I realized, wow, there is some brilliant people in this industry. You know, we'd go meet different guys and to hear their stories.

03:18 Brian Lunsford

Of where they started, where they came from. And I like the industry because you can start from scratch, like you mentioned, like I'm kind of we're doing again down here at Florida. But you can also you also have guys who have the experience of like generational ties to the pest control industry and then you can take what they've learned and I guess I'm one of those guys now with like you said, second generation. So just having a great time with it, very blessed to be in this industry and anything I can do to help your viewers, listeners along...

03:47 Dan Leibrandt

Awesome. I really appreciate that. And it's an awesome story. So you started at your dad's company in 2005. So walk me through the first year or so. What did that look like and what did you learn?

03:58 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, so being out in the field for a few months, like I said, and talking to customers, I really learned a lot about kind of what their expectations were in this industry. You know, I being in my younger twenties, I had just, you know, I'd gone to college and then the Virgin Islands and then an apartment. So I'd never been a homeowner yet. So I didn't know what homeowners wanted. I didn't know about this industry. And so I get out there and I realize you know, the expectations of homeowners and what they expect. I also realized how some home how some homeowners looked at pest control technicians. And so I realized that how can we deliver for these homeowners? How can we fulfill everything they're looking to get out of a pest control service? And then just took that back behind the computer. And at that point, if some of you guys may remember, there was Groupon, there was Angie's List, there was other there were other websites such as Yelp as well, that were really taking off, and we just jumped in on all that. For the loss leader approach on some of the deal sites. We brought technology into play. We realized that some of our competitors were you know, they might have been doing okay service, but technologically they're way behind. Like other industries were well ahead of us by 2005. And so we just dove in and started trying to work on those kind of things. Like how can we can we do let's do the let's do the meat and potatoes, right? Let's get the let's get the basics, the fundamentals down. Of course, let's let's answer the phones, let's have that Chick-fil-A level of customer care. But how can we bring technology into it? And so we d we do that. We get, you know, a high powered website, we respond to all reviews, good, bad, or ugly, which most were great. But the times that we'd get a bad one, even if the customer wasn't necessarily correct, we'd always reply with class and kind of just make sure that our online footprint was that of class, that of listening, that of being open minded. It doesn't mean we roll over and take something we shouldn't take, but at the same time, we always responded with kindness and f and we were always factual and everything. And so those are few and far between. But then we started just playing the deal game. We realized look, nobody knows who we are. We're a tiny company in a big market. What can we do to get our name out there? And so one of the ways we did that was through Groupon it through Angie's List. They would blast these these deals out every day. We found ways to get on those blasts. Before we knew it, the phones were ringing off the hook.

06:22 Brian Lunsford

We knew that we would send a technician out to those properties and that we would lose on the front end. Obviously a forty-nine dollar pest control deal, you're gonna lose most likely on that. So but our hope was with that, with that approach, they would realize, wow, these guys are good. I'm gonna have them back out again. And then they we'd pick them up as a recurring customer. And so that's what would happen. And then we'd get a good review on top of that. And then we just kept we just kept building off of that, man. Honestly, there was it was really nothing more complicated than that. We still did not know what we were doing half the time. We were to the point where we didn't know how to hire quick enough. We didn't know how to hire properly. We were answering the phones ourselves in the office and I remember we couldn't even type it quick enough. I mean we're like taking hand notes and throwing them across the room to someone else to go call the person back when another call came in. I mean it was it was total chaos but it was so much fun. But we learned along the way and made a lot of really, really dumb mistakes. Got lucky in some areas as well, and then just timed some things out right as well. So a heck of an experience and one I look back with with great fondness. It was good.

07:26 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah, definitely. That's I'm sure it's been a crazy journey. Well you said you've made a lot of dumb mistakes. Can you mention one or two of...

07:34 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, I'll mention plenty. Firstly hiring. Back then we would beg people to work for us. It was not an interview. It was, hey, thank you for showing up. I can't believe you're here. You do does does the mirror fog up when you look at it? Okay, come on, you're on the team. That's kind of how it was. Like we were just we would take anybody we could get. And I get it. Like when you're starting out looking back, I don't know what else we could have done, I guess. We could have asked better questions, we could have vetted better, but we definitely made some poor hires. We had to obviously, you know, take take our lumps there and move on. But we got better in that regard. We've we've overreached in other areas. You know, we've I remember a little later in time we reached heavily on a really big radio campaign in Atlanta, very expensive. Looking back, maybe it worked, maybe it didn't, but I think branding at that time, you know, it's fine, but I think, you know, more tactical approach may have even netted even more sales. So I think there's just some things like you look back on, but then you also realize, you know, that was a part of the whole process. We're running into certain things we've never done before, run we're in uncharted territory and we just we didn't know. So there were times where yeah the money's coming in but the money's going right back out. And we were we're coming up on payroll and you're you know you're dozens of employees and are we gonna make it? You know, how's this gonna work? I mean there are plenty of plenty of days like that. I will say my brother Brandon and me we both were very conservative on what we paid ourselves back then.

09:02 Brian Lunsford

We kept the majority of it in the company for almost the entire time we ran that company. So I think that was an important step. I think the f you know, some of the mistakes maybe people make is when when the revenues is really going up, you start just pulling all the money back out for yourself. I do believe you should do that to an extent. I don't I'm not one of those who believes you should wait until you're seventy or eighty and then do everything fun in life. Like I do think you should certainly enjoy life. But we were pretty careful on that and we still were able to have some fun along the way, but know that that exit one day was part of it. But yeah, man, that was that those are some of the those are some of the things. And then just some of the things I think we did well is we were always transparent. We always told the truth. We had that trust factor. When we did figure out the hiring process, we really did get some amazing team members on board. And I should say some of the people we hired that we messed up on probably wasn't even their fault, it was our fault. We may not have just been we may not have been the right fit for them. So yeah, just learning it's a process and we still don't have it right today. But we're still w we're working on it and we're trying just to learn from the past.

10:10 Dan Leibrandt

For sure. And I want to ask about your partnership with your brother. So why did you partner with him and what did you take away from that of the being partners with him?

10:21 Brian Lunsford

I think back then it was like, hey man, dad's company, should we take it over? Yeah, let's take it over. All right, fist pump, let's go. That's about what it was back in 2005 when we took over. From there, we just, you know, we've always you know hung out and got along and all that kind of stuff. So the trust factor was always there. He had a little bit of experience in the industry working for my dad here and there. And so we took that information and knew that we didn't know the whole, you know, we didn't know everything about the pest control industry as far as the ending.

10:28 Dan Leibrandt

Ha ha.

10:51 Brian Lunsford

But we had heard stories about, hey man, there's exit opportunities way down the line if you do well. And you know, to me it was more of one of those things of like, that's just the lead of the elite. We're, you know, we'll have, you know, we'll have a good time with this. And I thought maybe I'd get back into television or do something else like that. I didn't know. I was a political science major. Didn't know if I'd venture into that world somehow, government or something like that. Thank goodness I didn't. But we just, yeah, we just started just developing from a from the brotherhood to the to the work relationship. And yeah, we butted heads plenty of times, but it was always it was always with a good heart from both sides. And one thing I think that's important, I think if some of your folks listening are considering family members in the business, one thing to think about that that we always did that I appreciated was if we wanted to spend on something, the person who wanted to spend the least always won the argument. In other words, if I wanted to spend a million dollars on a marketing campaign, but he wanted to spend five hundred thousand, we're gonna do five hundred thousand. Or if he didn't want to spend it, we're gonna always default to the lower number if one person didn't agree. And so we just always kind of had that that going for us. And then yeah, there were plenty of things we were we pivoted on and didn't agree with each other on. But you know, the funny thing is I think it kind of worked out both ways. When I disagreed with something and it went that way, I was like, actually, that made a lot of sense. And maybe he would say the same thing on a few things I said. So it's all just worked out. As far as the 2019 exit, that just made a lot of sense because as far as us kind of parting ways, because he still lived in Georgia by then. I had moved to Florida in 2016. It's like, you know, man, we've had a good run for a long time, but you have your thing going in Atlanta. We didn't sell everything, we still had some home inspection.

12:43 Brian Lunsford

We had the home inspection company in Atlanta and then we had just started the small pest control and home inspection company down here in Florida. And so it kind of made just a lot of sense. We just figured it all out and talked it through, prayed about it, and worked all it and it all worked out and then we all just c we kind of just went our separate ways, but we still have this energy. If we need anything both ways, it we're we're a phone call away, so it's or a text away, it's all good.

13:06 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm, that's awesome. And I also wanted to ask about growth strategies. So you said things like Groupon and Angie's were working really well at the time, maybe fifteen, twenty years ago. Do any of those strategies that you were using to grow still work today? Hey guys, Dan Leibrandt here. Real quick, if you're a pest control owner looking to grow, I have two amazing resources for you. Number one is our free Pest Control Millionaires Facebook group. We have over 4,000 owners just like you in our community and would love for you to be a part of it. Go search Pest Control Millionaires on Facebook and request to join the group now. Number two is our book, Zip Code Kings. This was authored by me, Jonas Olson, and Jake Sheldon to be the ultimate guide to pest control marketing. We discuss everything from branding and traditional marketing to local SEO and Facebook ads. Go to Amazon and search Zip Code Kings to get your copy today. Now that being said, let's get back to the show.

13:59 Brian Lunsford

I don't think so. You know, there's I don't think there's a magic bullet necessarily. Even back then, I think those are just some strategies we used that worked particularly for us. Some other companies dismissed them, which is fine. They had different strategies. No, I mean I think what most guys in the industry who've who've done this for a little while, last however many years know is it's for for us at least, I'll speak for us, it's Google AdWords. I mean it's honestly just that. Simple. I wish I had a deeper answer. That's our that's our big thing down here is we're just rolling with that for now. And now we do other things of course, but other marketing, but for the most part it's Google AdWords. We had done branding for five years, with the Jaguars down here. We had a good run with that. We've done radio down here as well. We've pivoted the last half di from the last half decade. We're coming off of a very successful but half decades a long time branding campaign to really, really going after it now. So the cool thing about Kingfish, we haven't even really tried to really amp it up yet, although we are growing. Fast pace it's I'm pumped because we're turning the spotlight on the tactical sales and really going after it now and one of the reasons is this the fantastic guy that's running it for me Brian Wescott he came from Atlanta and I he I remember he and I were having these conversations I don't think he minds me sharing he was like you know what I'm very interested but do we have to grow quite as fast as we grew in Atlanta right out of the gate I was like no nah man we don't we don't have to do that we can take it slower we can get in here, let you get your feet on the ground if you're interested. And I remember not too long ago having a that conversation again with him, and he probably saw the twinkle in my eye and the wink, and I was like, How about now? Are we ready now? And he gave me the green light and I said, Here let's let's go. So we're we're pumped, we're in a new era, we're really, really excited about what's brewing. I always describe Kingfish Pest Control down here as like a Labrador, like a golden retriever, a puppy.

15:57 Brian Lunsford

You can look at their paws and tell he's gonna be a big boy if you just if you if you treat him right and feed him right. And so we're already we're we're we're on the we're on the rocket launch pad and that thing's fired up and I think we're starting to lift off so we're pumped.

16:01 Dan Leibrandt

Ha ha...

16:12 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I wanted to talk more about the Jaguars the partnership or sponsorship that you had. Yeah, th that's kind of the one of the main ways I learned about you and was so intrigued by you and your company is you know, I'd see maybe you posting on LinkedIn or I just checked out your profile. It like you guys are an official partner of the Jacksonville Jaguars? That's a that's a pretty big deal. I don't know of any of other pest control companies doing that. So tell me how that came about. And now that you are about to wrap up that that five-year partnership, like what are your takeaways? Would you do it again? Would you recommend it to other people?

16:51 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, so a lot there. I will first start by saying we are way too small to be an NFL partner. I came in I came in as a personal investor just because I'll start there. I there's a I've always loved the NFL, I've always loved sports, I've always like I mentioned earlier, I was a sports producer and I did a lot of cool things. But there was still a lot of things I hadn't done. And so honestly a lot of it was just to grow the company but also check off a lot of personal...

16:57 Dan Leibrandt

Ha ha.

17:16 Brian Lunsford

Bucket list things for me and my family. My son's a big fan as well of the NFL and the Jaguars. And so this just allowed me to grow the company at the same time get a lot of French benefits. They were super like flying on the team plane multiple times and just doing being invited to things I would otherwise never be invited to. But as importantly, it put me in rooms and it put me in coffees with CEOs and other business leaders that I never would have been able to do. So that that was definitely a byproduct of it. As far as how I got started, I remember moving to Florida in 20 16. And I remember looking when we built our house, looking at the HVAC, and I remember seeing a sticker of the HVAC company and it said proud partner of the Jaguars. And coming off Atlanta, I'm you know also a longtime Falcons fan. Well, I'm like, you know what, if the Jaguars trust this HVAC company, and I can trust them, there's their sticker. I'm gonna get I'm gonna go with them. So I'll call that company back. Whoever installed this is who I'm gonna use. So that's where it kind of first sparked in my mind. And then just like anything else, man, you start having a conversation, and one thing leads to another. Super, super cool, a lot of really cool things for Kingfish. It elevated Kingfish into the Jacksonville area for sure. It did a lot of really cool things, but also realized that not all companies our size are ready to do something like that, and I don't think it's something you have to do. It was certain it was really cool for us. It was not easy, it was very expensive. But it's something that when I'm if I'm blessed to live to 90 years old one day and I look back, I okay, so maybe there's a there was a different strategy or a little bit more money or something like that. But at the end of the day, I've done things and my family has done things. We've we've we've created experiences and moments that we will never never otherwise have, and I will never regret that.

19:02 Dan Leibrandt

Mm, yeah. No, that's a bucket list item for sure. And yeah, I didn't even really think about the benefits there, but that'd be so cool, like being on the being on the jet with the team and being in the in the locker room with them and meeting these players and then meeting the other high level people in Jacksonville that are associated with the team too. I'm sure that there was I mean, I wouldn't think you would lose money on that. At the very least you break even and then of course you get the experiences.

19:27 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, anything with branding, when we use we use PestPac, when you look in there, it's not gonna come all the way up to the same level as what the expenditure was. But again, like anything else with branding, you're just that's how it is. And I knew that before I even signed the you know, back in the day and when we first started. And yeah, I mean I would certainly consider it again in the future. I we're gonna like I said, we're we're in full blown growth mode now. And so the branding is not there now, but five, ten years, who knows.

19:57 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah. Yeah, I think you guys do have a really good brand. And I wanted to ask, how important do you think branding is? Number one, just having really good branding assets, I guess, maybe a logo, good website, that kind of thing. But then also really getting your brand out there, beyond the Jaguars partnership, but also maybe billboards, maybe commercials. Like, is that stuff important and when should you invest in that?

20:22 Brian Lunsford

It is, Dan. You do a great job of this in your industry and in the industry and what you do too. But absolutely it's important. So yeah, don't let what I'm saying downplay that whatsoever. Branding is massively important. It's something that served us well. It just depends on to what level you go. We swung for the fences, you know, we went, you know, we hit we hit the grand slam on what we went for. But a base hit works sometimes too. And so I think it just depends on where you're at as a company, where your interests are, what you wanna do, as far as how far you take that. Every market's different as well. You know, can be in a smaller market and radio is not it's not significant as far as cost. You can be in a big market and radio is very expensive. So it just really depends. You don't necessarily have to be a partner of an NFL team. There's minor league teams you could look at. There's other angles you could take, other things you could do to brand and a million other things you could do as well. Branding is important. The season we're in, we're we're we've done the branding and we're the platform is set now for now and we have a firm foundation on the branding and it's takeoff time now.

21:26 Dan Leibrandt

Hm. I'm interested to hear you say radio, 'cause most owners I talk to say radio doesn't work. I wasted so much money on it, never do radio. Are you saying radio can't actually work?

21:37 Brian Lunsford

Absolutely. They're they're looking at what I'm looking at. They're just looking at the source code and they're basing everything off the source code. And I think that's a flawed way to look at it. I don't think a source code is ever going to match the expenditure of a branding campaign. It's just not. I think it's there's a there's other factors. I mean you can measure a lot of other things inside the business. You can I know some people may agree or disagree with this. You there's gut fillings you have, there's word on the street, there's text messages, there's messages on LinkedIn, there's a million other things you can look at to know, you know what? That I got a pretty good pulse on whether this is working or not and it's not just the source code inside your CRM.

22:13 Dan Leibrandt

Totally, I agree. Yeah, I don't think owners put nearly enough effort into branding as they should. And especially with the new age of AI search. One of the f like something that I really like that Gary Vee said is that like no matter what happens in search one of the few things, maybe the only thing you can control is your brand. So that instead of let's say, in the vast future, maybe 10, 20 years from now, everyone has a robot in their house. And now maybe the robot sees a pest in the house. But instead of just doing like a pest control near me or whatever, now it chooses the company that you like or that you've seen the most of before and that you trust. Or maybe it's someone who's a really big Jaguars fan and they choose your company just because you're affiliated with the Jaguars, that kind of thing.

23:00 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, and an interesting point that I've that I found when it comes to the Jags campaign, that it was it was a fascinating thing we looked into is that what'll happen is you brand and you brand and you brand. So for example, we have Swat, we had Swat That Kick. They took over. They know the Jaguars, I think they used to have the biggest video boards in the NFL. Maybe the Rams are bigger now, maybe there's another stadium or two, but one of the biggest video boards in the NFL, and so when the opposing team would kick a field goal we would have Swat That Kick. I was trying to come up with something that would tie into the pest control and pest control industry, but that would also make sense for football. And so Swat That Kick with our logo and the whole thing up there. And by the end of our run as a as a partner, you would start to hear the crowd chant. Swat That Kick, Swat That Kick. It was amazing. Like unbelievable they would they would do that. And then what I think was happening, and what our research has has told us is that after a half decade of getting ingrained in call it sixty thousand fans at the stadium and occasionally you could see it in the background on television. What happens is they need pest control now at the suburban home on a on a Tuesday and they Google pest control. We pop up, they don't really remember exactly how they heard of Kingfish. They just know they've heard of Kingfish. And so you got the big boys and you got the other guys in there. And what'll happen they'll go, how do I know that comes? They'll click on Kingfish and then voila, there it is. And that's through the Jags. That's it. That's all they needed. That was a that was a validation they needed and the phone rings. So we got that a lot. And so what would happen is a lot of times when our C when our CSR team would ask, you know, how'd hear about us? They w they would say, Google. Well, Google get the credit, but you could trace it back to the Jaguars, you could trace it back to radio.

24:47 Brian Lunsford

When you had a deeper conversation with that customer. So it's an interesting thing. Branding's a very layered thing when you come when you try to look at the ROI on it, but it's definitely a necessity. It's certainly how we feel down here.

25:00 Dan Leibrandt

One hundred percent. Something that you also mentioned was that sometimes regarding marketing, it might just be out of a gut feeling. And I was just listening to another podcast you were on and you said the same thing around hiring, that you like you just might hire off of a gut feeling. Can you talk more about like gut feelings and how you I guess like utilize that and make decisions around that?

25:23 Brian Lunsford

Yeah. So one of the things that I talk with our team about and I think we operate on this system. And just because it's tried and true, at least in my case, is that when you're interviewing someone, and I don't get to do it as much anymore, but when you're interviewing someone and you have a red flag with that interview, could be something they said, could be some, this could be an aura, there could be anything, yes, you are judging them in that interview. So whether we like it or not, it is a judgment and they're judging you and they're judging your company as it should be, because we're about to enter into an agreement on both sides. And so if you have a red flag about something they said that just didn't make sense. Maybe it didn't match the resume. Maybe whatever the thing is, your research, you're usually right on the red flags. I have found that honestly I don't recall one time in the hundreds of people I've interviewed because over the years you have to literally interview hundreds you know, it in Atlanta when you when you count it here to get to where we're at. You literally I don't I can't think of one example where where a red flag actually worked out. Every time it's we ha we knew that in that interview. We trusted his story, even though we thought some of this was slanted and wasn't exactly correct or was something was off about that person and come to find out that exact thing you felt, you were probably right. So we just say look if you have a gut feeling, a red flag, you're probably right. And you should probably just not waste that time. As we all know, it's costly, it's time consuming, you know, just the whole process you've got to go through.

26:49 Brian Lunsford

Now what it what I'm not saying is don't give everybody a fair chance. If they pass the written test and they pass the phone interview and now they're in front of you and they've gone to that much trouble to make it to the interview and do all the things, give you gotta give them a fair chance. And if they say something that doesn't line up to what you've already researched on them, ask them right then. But I can tell you if you've if you've got a red flag, you're probably right.

27:11 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Let's say someone maybe doesn't have a very good intuition. What are some of those red flags that they can look out for?

27:19 Brian Lunsford

I would say the first thing is what they are saying is not matching what they've already told you. You can poke holes in their stories. You know, maybe maybe the phone interview, you didn't do the deep dive, and then you did the deep dive before you knew this human being was walking into your office and you got some concerns there. Maybe you've already ran some s maybe you found something online, you got a background check in place somehow and you they you give them a chance to offer it up and they don't tell you about the DUI from three years ago and look if you had just told me we could have worked this out because we've all made mistakes, but because you hid it from us, it's gonna be tougher to hire you now. It's things like that. We've also, you know, had folks who come in and they're just not the right fit, but we tell what we're looking for and say, Look, our culture is this and you know, maybe they come in and say, I'll tell the customer who's right and I don't take anything from a customer. We're the exact opposite of that. Doesn't mean we again we fold but we listen to our customer even if they're not correct in what their assessment might be. But we try to listen to them and un try to understand why are they thinking something about us and then how can we pivot the way maybe we're operating so they don't see it in that regard. We tell them, hey here's what our culture's about. We'll be hiring again in six months. Let's let's circle back in six months and see how things are going. So there's been times like that. But for the most part don't overthink it. You know? If you've if you've got that it's too it's too important, especially especially as a small business, it's too important of a process to do what we did in the early days in Atlanta and just bring anybody on board. Because not everybody has the same care, concern, all those things that you have as the owner or even as one of the leaders of the company. And you want people in there that care. I mean, think I mentioned earlier Chick-fil-A, I think they're a company that do incredible job on who they hire. They just they just do. It's a fact.

29:07 Brian Lunsford

And what does that turn into? It turns into pleasant experiences for the customer. It turns into convenience. It turns into a lot of really positive things. And I think we just try to model companies like that.

29:20 Dan Leibrandt

Definitely. I wanted to go deeper on culture. So let's let's say someone listening to the show right now, maybe it's them and maybe two technicians and they're kind of starting to think about culture, they're kind of starting to get out of the truck. Like, how do you think about culture and how can people start to develop culture?

29:38 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, we and this is something I've evolved on as time has gone on, because there are times in the early years and even now probably that I stumble around all the time on this kind of stuff. But I will say this to the young entrepreneur out there, like you need everything, every interaction you have, whether it's with your team member, whether it's with a customer, whether it's with a vendor, whether it's with somebody in line at the grocery store. If your te whoever's around you are you are this is a vote for how you're acting in their mind and who you are. And so if you disagreed with how a technician handled a property and you fire off without any thought a brutal email to that technician, you are, whether you meant to or not, or whether your email was perfectly correct, but it was it was out of line at that time or could have been worded softer or could have been better served having a verbal conversation. You're building a culture whether you like it or not. And I think that's something that I've realized I also realize too that like as the leader of the company, you gotta realize that part of the culture is letting is stepping back, is hiring the right people and letting your hands loose on on everything. Like you gotta, you know, you've you gotta see the big picture stuff, you've gotta watch for things coming and you've gotta you gotta make big decisions all the time. But it doesn't mean every single little thing has to go across your desk. You need to trust your team, trust them to do it. And that's building culture. That is them saying, Wow, he trusts me enough to not even he's letting me take this whole project myself. Awesome. And the what I've found is that the more we do that, the more people are kind of in their own lane. They're better at those things than I am anyway. They're also enjoying it more than I do anyway. And so it's a win for everybody. I'm winning because they're I'm doing what I'm good at and what God put me here to do. They're doing what they're blessed to do, you know, been blessed with talent to do and what they enjoy. And what is doing for the company is moving everybody forward.

31:34 Brian Lunsford

Rising ship, rising tide raises all ships. It's that, man. It's really just that. So every action we take, email, text, meeting, your tone, showing up. I think too showing up, that's another thing. You know, like it's coming in tired or coming in unprepared or I've done all those things in the past. Plenty of times, showed up to meetings, totally unprepared. This disappointed looking back that I did some of those things, but trying to be more prepared, trying to be physically fit, be there for my team, be mentally strong. That means getting the right amount of sleep. That means eating properly, that means the right inputs. Am I just vegging out on Netflix or am I listening to audiobooks that are help helping driving help drive education and ideas and all these different things? Am I listening to other leaders in this space and other spaces? I think those are things that I wish I could rewind the time and have done earlier. That I was that I did a poor job on for many years, that I'm trying to get better at now is just trying to do that. Be be open-minded, be listen to other angles. Another thing too is let them know you care about their family, man. Honestly, that's one of the most important things you can do is checking in on the family. How are they doing? At the end of the day, yeah, your company's cool and everything, but like your company's way down the list, man. You got usually someone's faith and their family and there's a bunch of other stuff and then maybe your company. So it's like you shouldn't expect that to be the idol in their life. And nor should it be. And so I always say, look, we don't want anybody missing soccer games or dance recitals around here. Because if they miss that kind of stuff, their mind's not on what it needs to be on anyway. Go do those things. Look, work's always gonna be here. I mean, I'll tell you I'll tell you, since we're talking about culture, I'll tell you something just happened about two weeks ago. And I mean it about when I when I heard this story I couldn't even believe it. I had to I had to call the guy myself and thank him in person. So we've got a we got a technician leader, emerging very talented guy on our Kingfish team. And I'll s let's set him aside for a second. We got another gentleman on our team who's fantastic, doing a great job too, but he just he just had a very very bad diagnosis, medical diagnosis. I'll don't have his permission to share so I'm not. But it was a it's a it's a devastating diagnosis that we're praying he can get through. Well when and we're hopeful that he will and actually got some good news today at a meeting that that some good news is coming, so that's good. But the other employee that I that I mentioned first, he heard this news through company wide email and he immediately reached out to me and Brian Wescott, the VP of Kingfish, and he said, I would like you guys to allow me to take half of my commission that I earn while he's out and give it to him. I've been doing this a long time, man, and I've seen a lot of nice people and a lot of nice gestures. I've never seen anything in my life like that. Now, more all the credit goes to him. He's the one that did it. But I do, I'll give credit to our leaders and our team that we do foster a family-like environment here. It's not money, money, money, money. It's honestly faith, family, and money will be there if we do those, if we get those things right. And so, man, when I heard that, that's to me, first and foremost, give give this technician, emerging leader that he is all the credit. And then secondarily, I'm just grateful our team. We have a culture around here that that allows someone to be vulnerable like that. By the way, we told him absolutely not. That's the nicest thing I've ever heard. You are not doing that. We're gonna take care of him in any which any way we can, but it's noted. And I'm just blessed. I have I wish I could have a hundred guys just like him. Unbelievable story.

35:28 Brian Lunsford

And I'm glad I'm glad you brought up culture because that's a perfect example.

35:33 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah. Wow, that that is incredible. That's like as you use the word family. That that really is like d developing a family culture. And of course, you said, it's you know, should put your actual family above the company, but this is your you know, your employees or for them, their other team members, like this is kind of your second family. And wow, that that is such an inspiring story. I just I when I hear something like that, I know the culture is successful.

36:05 Brian Lunsford

Well, to your point, we spend a lot of time with each other. And nowadays with technology and GPS and online meetings and stuff, it's not as much as it used to be. But at the end of the day, we're still in the same world together for a lot of time during the business week. And so they are. They are absolutely. I just I think like I said, what we try to foster here is that work will be here and you have a family here, a work family here, and then you have your family that as you know, if you know you're the leader of your household if you're a male, and that's so go lead your house in certain s situations, and we back that. Fully. Our female employees we feel the same way. Look, if you've got the child you're taking to the doctor or the sporting event or whatever, this will be here. We'll find a way. Go see those things, go do those things that are vastly more important than anything we do. It doesn't mean we're not delivering on our customers. It doesn't mean we're letting anybody down. We got other team members that'll step up. Any of us will answer the phone, do whatever we've got to do. But go do those important things in life. And I find that when we do those kind of things that they want to they continue to want to work. Work here and be here and be a part of it and they bring ideas that I would have never thought of. And we're just like I said, we're just beyond blessed right now and I'm really pumped at where this team has evolved to and where it's at right now and I'm very blessed and like I said, happy to share and help offline with anybody that's interested.

37:24 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah, awesome. I've seen you post online and you've also mentioned it several times here that faith is first for you. Ca can you talk a little bit about your faith and how that influences how you approach life and business?

37:37 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, I think well first of all when I say faith, just something bigger than yourself, by no means do I require any employee to follow a particular denomination or anything like that. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, so that's mine. And I'm I think where I've evolved there, there's multiple layers to this. It's my own evolution. I've always been a believer, but I've always kind of just, you know, I would check the box believer versus actually walking the walk. I believe I'm still terribly flawed and sinful and all the things, but getting trying to get better and better as the as the days and years go on. But what I didn't do well back then when it comes to the company and it and faith is I would, in my opinion, now looking back, is I was I was silent. I was silent on the issue. It would never come up. I would never bring it up. I would I would never post about it to your point. I would never I mean maybe I'd drop a God bless generically. Sadly, into an email or something like that or a text. But I would never take the true step of what faith has brought me and the peace and the joy and just all that has brought just that comfort and just knowing there's so much more out there. And what it's done is I think it's softened hearts. I think it's I think people realized people have realized that my heart is softer when they hear me talk like that and I think they appreciate it. Even if heck, maybe they don't believe in what I believe in, that's okay, but at least they know where I'm coming from. And I'm not afraid tied. I'm not afraid to put it out there anymore. I'm proud of it, excited about it. I wake up excited. And I believe it's my faith is the reason why. And yeah, I try to lead that way and just be that kind of leader.

39:19 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Amen. I'm the same way. I sometimes it's hard to be bold as a Christian, but I feel like that's kind of what we're called to do. And back to what you're talking about with culture, it seemed like the main thing that I took away from that was that culture is essentially about leading by example. So first that's just you and maybe maybe you just have a few technicians, but as you grow to a size where you guys were at, with a hundred employees, well now you have many different leaders in the business and all of those people are now influencing the people below them or you know, other employees in the company. So you need to be those you yourself as the owner especially, but also all the leaders in your company need to be doing their best on all aspects. So I don't know, if they're really good at business and making money, but they maybe have no faith or it's th they say they do, but it you don't see it, or they don't care about family at all. Well like then that kind of rubs off the wrong way on the other employees as well.

40:30 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, you hear if serving is beneath you then leading is beyond you and you know what we're taught in Christianity is you serve and you serve others and you put others before yourself then yourself and you know the leave the ninety nine to go help the one that's lost. That's just kind of what we do. Again, I'm not if someone in an interview tells us that they're they don't believe in the same thing I believe, that's not gonna disqualify them necessarily. But all these other things we're mentioning, serving, giving back, culturally and all that is very, very important to that interview process for sure. But I just I just feel like as a leader if you don't have a higher purpose and you only depend on your inner constitution, it's impossible to be resilient like during resil during tough times, like difficult times. I mean you have to have something to fall back on, you know, like when if there's a non-believer or someone that's just confused about their faith and they inevit inevitably, we all do, hit the valley, they're not running to their drinking buddies, they're not running to their golf buddies, they're not running to you know, their their bingo buddies, whatever the card buddy, whatever the thing is, they're running to their faith buddies, they're running to people who are grounded in that. And we're already seeing it, you know, at our at our small business in Kingfish, like I mentioned with with someone that's gotten a diagnosis. And so you start to see hearts change, minds minds change. If nothing else, you're just leading by example the way I think someone of faith should and we just try to be there for him. It's really not that complicated, honestly. It's really not. It's just putting others before yourself. And again, I was absolut and still am not perfect at this and I was terrible at this in the past, years ago. And so I feel like again it's a it's a sanctification process that we're on that I'm on. I'm on it's a journey for sure. And but I'm glad I'm glad that I'm on this I'm trending in the right direction now and that that part's exciting.

42:25 Dan Leibrandt

For sure. I also wanted to talk about the other companies that you have. So I and maybe you can enlighten me. I believe you mentioned in the other interview that they're c they at least they were kind of all under the same parent company or portfolio. Why why do you have these other home services and how like what is the difference between them and pest control?

42:47 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, great question. It leads into something I can mention. So let me just back up a little. So my word, I have a group of other men that I work out with and we have a leadership meeting every Tuesday. And we always come up with a word in every December for the next year. So in December of twenty twenty five, my word of the year was simplification. And if you don't take any action on that word and you don't make decisions through that prism, you're not really honoring what we talk about in these in these meetings and when I say leadership meeting, it's just fundamentals. It's building it doesn't it's nothing specific other than just the fundament it's actually through our my workout group F3. It's called QSource, it's an amazing it's a book, you can get it on Amazon. But it's a leadership it's a leadership manual, basically. And so th from that meeting, I took that word in late twenty-five and really used it in every decision that I made in twenty twenty-six. So whichever podcast you may have heard in the past, at the time I had so we have the pest control company, we have the home inspection company. And by the way, the home inspection company, like I mentioned earlier, and you said as well, is started in Atlanta. So that's where that comes from. And then I'll get to the others. Then the other one, the other sort, the couple other service companies, the lighting company, it came it was born from me actually being a consumer and getting someone to put light Christmas lights on my house and us coming back. From wherever we were that f that first night and seeing our house lit up and I looked at my little kids and my wife and I saw the joy it brought to their face and I'm like man you know there's got to be there there's there there's a need I think in our area. I know it's hard to get on this schedule. Like I've t I've heard neighbors talk about how how hard it is to get people out there. And so there's gotta be a need. So JoyLights was born pretty much that night. Now we expanded JoyLights to turn into from a very small seasonal time frame to a 12 month deal because we started doing permanent lights. Our team came to me with a good idea. Hey, we can go we can do this 12 months out of the year, which is great. Incredible product that we had and we were installing. But with that comes complications. With that comes different types of people you have to hire with special specialized labor and cutting of metal versus seasonal Christmas lights you just put up and you can teach folks pretty quickly how to do. The permanent lighting also is not a recurring model.

45:09 Brian Lunsford

Whereas the seasonal Christmas lights, the original vision that I had, is. And so coming into 26, one of the first things that I talked with my team about was I was like, hey guys, why don't we just let's let's we're we're spending so much bandwidth on this lighting company when our when our bread and butter honestly is pest control and home inspections, why don't we take some of this off the table and let's turn this 12 month lighting company into a six-week company. And the look of thank you, thank you from our team because our other team members inside those other companies helped run it. We had some individuals that were on on parts of these teams that were just for those c for the lighting company, but for the most part It was help from the other companies and then we would hire seasonal help at Christmas time. And so that was a breath of fresh air. They loved it. And so far it's just been phenomenal. We've keep we're gearing up now for that first holiday season and this new model that everybody's just really, really excited about. It's a whole new era for that company. The home inspection company...

45:36 Dan Leibrandt

Ha.

46:06 Brian Lunsford

Not a ton of changes there, still doing its thing. You know, it deals with the housing market up and down. Had a rough go the last couple of years. We're we're seeing some daylight now down here with the housing market. So we're pumped about that. I did briefly start a handyman company and again that was my team coming to me and with an idea and I you know and I liked it and I agreed to it. And not long after that I didn't like it. I didn't agree to it because what I realized pretty quickly was hiring and keeping really good leadership in a handyman company is very, very hard, very difficult. Also, every handyman job is different. It required just a lot of again bandwidth on our part. It was just wasting a lot of time. So I said, guys, I can solve that problem in two seconds. Chop. Done. So chopped it out. Took the lighting company, did what we said, we did on that. And then my wife and I were blessed for five years to run a publishing company, Jacksonville Real Producers, an incredible run. They accomplished everything we wanted to accomplish. We, our main goal was to get in there and serve real estate agents in Northeast Florida, and to just create these incredible 200-person events every quarter, and really just put the spotlight on them and on businesses that were kind enough to be on that platform with us. It's a franchise, and we had the Jacksonville one. As I mentioned, and so we ran that out five years and really just had a good time with it, sold that. Again, back to the simplification. My children are, my son is 13, my daughter's 12, meaning my son's got five years left in our house. And when I can we my wife and I started talking, we're like, wow, five years? That was the same amount of time we just had Real Producers.

47:44 Brian Lunsford

It was the perfect time to sell that. So we sold that franchise this year as well. And once again, simplification. So we have just been simplifying, simplifying, simplifying, and what it's done is it is revitalized our team. I have not seen an excitement level like this in a long time. They're really just rejuvenated, pumped up about a lot of different things, and our mission's a lot clearer again. And so I can get into the details on how the entities are all set up if you want, but at the end of the day. We are pumped to do we do pest control we really well, home inspections really well, and lighting at Christmas time really, really well. If you need us for any of those, we're here. That's what we're doing.

48:24 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah, awesome. Yeah, that's what I've noticed a lot from a lot of high level entrepreneur entrepreneurs that I've eve either interviewed or listened to is that they are focused. They choose one thing, they go all in and they do that for a long time. I wanted to ask you about the publishing company slash magazine. Was that to promote the pest control company at all?

48:45 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, so like I said at the beg earlier, like part of it to your point, part of it, yes, was to the realtors and to the people inside of that space. But the other part, yeah, selfishly, strategically, have whatever word you want to use there, was the fact that it would elevate Kristin and me to a level in the real estate community where then our home inspection company and our pest control companies over in the corner, also as partners, and they can say, Well, we trust and we love Brian and Kristin. We're gonna use them over on their companies. There was no, they didn't have to, there was no obligation or anything like that. And we, to be honest, like we barely even said a word about those companies. We just wanted them to know who we were and that we have these other companies, and if you ever need us, here we are. And so it did work. I think other owners may have pushed harder than we did. We just never wanted to cross that line. We felt like we'll stay in our lane here for what we're doing as the publisher owners of this publication and this platform. We're gonna we're gonna do what we're we're there to do, which is to serve and honor those people who are on that platform. But at the same time, did it help? Absolutely, because they saw us over there with those other companies.

49:54 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. Totally. I've got two more questions for you, Brian, and then we'll wrap up. One is, and I always like to ask this to owners that I've sold. So you sold your previous company, which was your dad's company, very successful exit. What were some of the top lessons that you learned from selling that company that you took into this new company? Or relatively new. I know Kingfish has now been around for...

50:20 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you mean on the actual sell process or just in general starting frame? Yeah.

50:24 Dan Leibrandt

No, just overall, the let's see, the fifteen years or so that you spent building it, like starting from scratch with Kingfish, what lessons did you take into that company to now grow this faster and better?

50:38 Brian Lunsford

Yeah. I mean the first thing that comes to mind is big results or small actions repeated over a long period of time. And so I think like to the young entrepr entrepreneur again, if he's hearing this and he's like, Well how do I even get one technician? It's hire that first one and then sit back and keep grinding until you can get the second one. It's just a process, but it does take time. It's not always gonna happen overnight. So I did know that going into Kingfish that although yeah, we kind of started at the tail end before we sold it other company, it was still, I mean, ninety something percent of my energy and effort and pretty much all of our energy and effort went to the Atlanta pest control company. And so to be honest, the home inspection and the pest down here we paid no attention to just because that one took so much time. But now that we've been able to kind of say, all right, let's focus on these now, that's one of the things I know. You just gotta take you also gotta take those steps of obedience. You gotta do things that you know are fundamentally sound. That could be something like man, if it's if it's a Friday at at five o'clock and a customer calls and leaves a voicemail, if you can get back to them, get back to them. If they call over the weekend, I'm a big proponent of enjoying your weekend and unplugging. I'm not even advocating doing anything on the weekend, although when you're small, sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. But man, let them do the first call Monday morning back. I mean, just do the fundamentals right. If you can fire off an email to someone and make their day by letting them know you're gonna send a technician, just do it, especially again in the early in the early years before you have an you know a team under you that can handle that kind of stuff. And just don't get discouraged. Like hang in there. Like don't reinvent the wheel. It's there's nothing really to invent. Like we're there's no strategy that these even these massive companies out there have. Like I've been blessed again to have these lunches.

52:24 Brian Lunsford

And these coffees and all these things, these one-on-one time with them, and they're they'll tell me, like, look, there's nothing special we're doing over here. It's really nice. It's a lot of fundamentals. They're they're blessed by different ways that they got to where they were at, M&A or whatever the thing is, it should not at all discourage, actually it should encourage, put courage into the younger guy that's just starting out because there's no magic bullet, man. Just push, get out there. We you're in a cool industry. You're an industry that is actually gaining and gaining and gaining and building and building and building over time. You have an asset in your hands. If you just realize it that way, get the recurring revenue going. Man, when it's time to when it's time to If you ever decide if it's if it's time to let go, you're gonna be in a really good position. And you're gonna be in a good position to reward those around you as well, which is big on my heart as well. So yeah, those are a couple things and I will say too, do not procrastinate. There is never the right time to get started. You will never ever and I'm still there's a bunch of other things I want to accomplish in my life. I guess as I'm at halftime or whatever I'm at. There's still a lot more things I want to do and I procrastinate all the time on those things. And when I say procrastinate, it could be it could it could be stretching yourself into reaching out to someone for a coffee. It could be I see younger guys do that to me all the time. I'm like, dude, I wish I had the courage just to have just to send that text, send that email, send that message or whatever. Do not be afraid to ask others for help. Realize that there's so much pie out there, everybody can win.

53:55 Brian Lunsford

None of us have some magic secret. We all have different strategies how we do it. We all operate a little bit differently, maybe. That's fair. But there is nothing that one guy's doing better than the other as far as just like some magic thing. It all takes work, it all takes strategy. You just gotta figure out which one fits you the best and your team the best and your market the best and so on and so forth.

54:16 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm. I love that. That was so good. And the last question I have, which you kind of already answered it here, but I if you have anything else, it is, and I ask all my guests this, for all the pest control owners out there, what is your message to them? What do you want to tell them? What do you think they need to know?

54:36 Brian Lunsford

Yeah, I would say you're in a cool industry. When I say cool, if your goal is to have a good life, provide for your family, enjoy vacations, go places, do things, build something that that has a return at the end, you are one hundred percent in the right industry. Stay in that industry and then connect with good people like Dan, connect with incredible brokers, connect with mentors, connect with other owners. We have a group down here in the home inspection space. We haven't got together as much as we had in the past here lately just because of everybody's schedules, but we get together, we're we're each other's biggest competitors and you can translate that to the pest control industry. I've actually here recent I'm actually playing golf I think next week or the week after with a massive one of the biggest companies in Northeast Florida. Their president and one of their top guys. And so there's nothing they're afraid to tell me, there's nothing I'm afraid to tell them. We're all honestly you can say we're all in the same team almost. Like we're there's so much out there, so many homes out there, so many businesses out there that need pest control and need that that you're you're providing something. You're you what you're doing is not lowly like Hollywood might might make it seem. What you're doing is very noble. You are you're you're you're providing a service to keep you know homes free of disgusting pests or harmful pests or wood-destroying pests or whatever the thing is. You're bringing joy to people by you know bringing their trash can up from the end of the street if you're at their house anyway and you're down there, why not? You have opportunities every day to see people, maybe you see it in their face that they're they're down, maybe you can bring joy to them by just having a conversation. It puts you on the phone with people. It puts you, like I said, it just gives you a it gives you a platform as an owner to do certain things and give back to your community and to charity. I would say embrace this industry, love this industry. You're in the right industry. And if it works for you, man, just keep doing it and watch what happens.

56:36 Dan Leibrandt

Hmm, so good. You are in the right industry. Don't be afraid to make connections and even be friends with your competitors. This was such a great podcast, Brian. I really appreciate your time and I know how valuable it is. Where can people find you and connect with you online?

56:52 Brian Lunsford

Man, I'm all over the just search Brian Lunsford, Kingfish, any of those. We're out there. If you ever want to message me, just please do. And I'm happy to chat with you on the phone or whatever, meet up for coffee. Always like trying to give back and I enjoy it too, and I learn a lot as well.

57:06 Dan Leibrandt

Awesome. So yeah, everyone go follow Brian on social media. Definitely, I know you're on LinkedIn and some other platforms. So all those links will be in the description and anything else you'd like to plug or promote?

57:17 Brian Lunsford

I just appreciate you having me on here, Dan. Thank you very much.

57:20 Dan Leibrandt

Course, man. Appreciate you.

57:22 Brian Lunsford

Take care.

57:23 Dan Leibrandt

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