Josh Fleenor on Building Pest Pros to Almost $10M by Betting on People

00:00 Dan Leibrandt

Hey there, my name is Dan Leibrandt and welcome back to Pest Control Legends. Today I am with Josh Fleenor, who is the CEO and founder of Pest Pros Pest Solutions, which is a pest control company based in Sacramento, doing almost $10 million a year. And like I said, they just got started about seven years ago and Josh has been in the industry for about 25 years now. And we're going to talk about how he has grown his company so fast, you know, almost eight figures in just seven years. Kind of his secret to growth, which I was talking to him before the show and he's not, he's not so keen on maybe doing like door to door or maybe some of the marketing strategies that you'd expect, but it's actually a lot about people. So we're going to talk about his hiring strategies, how he finds the right people, how he builds the right people, things around company culture, and overall how he's grown his company so large and ultimately how he's become Pest Control Legends.

00:51 Dan Leibrandt

So super excited for this one and thanks so much for coming on Josh. Of course, man. So talk to me about your background, how you first got into pest control 25 years ago or so.

01:02 Josh Fleenor

Well, uh, I didn't set out for pest control. I think most people don't, it's in the family. Um, I was kind of lost as a kid after high school. I didn't, I didn't know what I was really going to do. I did a little bit of junior college. I kind of bounced around through some jobs and I ended up in a landscaping job that I really enjoyed and I ended up in their design department. So, all right, you know, maybe I'll go back to school and start pursuing something there that I can later lead into becoming a landscape architect. And, uh, I was, I answered an ad in the paper cause I was looking for a bit more experience. So there was a internship program for a big developer and I thought, well, there I could get some really good experience, get some exposure and then really determine if this is what for me. And, um, the number was wrong in the, in the paper. So, and I ended up calling a company and it was a pest control company.

02:00 Josh Fleenor

And the owner of the company answered the phone. It was a small business. He was super charismatic. He talked me into coming down at least meeting with him. And, uh, you know, I've been in the industry ever since.

02:11 Dan Leibrandt

Interesting. By the way, for, for people that are watching, we have people coming around the back. Um, this is our house in PestWorld. We have about, um, you know, yeah, say hi guys. We have about 15 to 20 people here, all pest control owners slash people affiliated with pest control in some way. Um, so I meant to mention at the beginning of the show, but so cool to be at this house here with Josh. Um, okay, cool. So it actually happened by accident. I've talked to a lot of pest control owners. That's usually kind of the stance and me, even personally, I got in the pest control by accident or I'd say I wasn't planning on becoming like a pest control marketer. Okay. So that was about 25 years ago. Talk to me about, you know, you worked at different companies and such. What did you learn across your career as a tech and across these different companies you were working at?

02:59 Josh Fleenor

Well, you know, so I worked for that company for a little bit and I saw that there wasn't really, they weren't growing and it didn't look like there was going to be any opportunity down the line and looking back on that same company today, they're about the same size. They were 25 years ago today. So they, you know, it's a good thing. I didn't stick around there. I'm very growth minded. So I need that next challenge and that next challenge. So I looked around and there was a local company, family owned company that was pretty big and then now they've been bought out nationally. Um, but they had, they had a very crisp image. You saw them everywhere. Well, that's probably a company I could go to and really learn how to do this and have some big opportunities. So I went there for about five years and, um, you know, there was, they had a lot of veteran guys that are then 20 years and I'm as a young guy looking at, I'm, you know, I'm 27 at the time, I think, and I'm looking around and going, man, if these guys have been here 20 plus years and they haven't moved up into the roles that I'm looking for, it's probably not going to happen for me, you know, whether it was, or wasn't, you know, in my mind, that's what I decided.

04:08 Josh Fleenor

Okay. I need to go take a leap of faith. Yeah. Somewhere else that offer something that they don't, they weren't real commercial pest control driven. So I said, I want to learn that. And I want to learn bird exclusion and some of these other things. So it went to us another company, I went to a national company and it was a terrible experience. So I was there six months, the whole time I'm looking for another company because I don't want to just bounce around all over the place. I got to make sure this next one's right. So I ended up with another large family owned company that ended up taking off. And I ended up moving up through the company over the years. I became a branch manager. I basically became a regional manager. I managed a couple of regions, a couple offices in the Bay Area for them. And I learned a lot through that, not through their standards that they put together or any other program. I was kind of just thrown out there. So I learned a lot about myself that I became extremely resourceful. And, uh, I refused to lose because I was so competitive.

05:03 Josh Fleenor

So I searched out every bit of information I could. I talked to other pest guys and got as much information as I could from them. And then at some point, um, I was just working like crazy for them. And I mean, I literally slept on the couch some nights because it didn't make sense to, because I'm in San Francisco and we're dealing with national accounts. I get a, I get an escalated account. You got to be in San Francisco at 1AM and I'm there until about 3AM. And then knowing that I need to be back in the office by five or six am, I would drive back to the office and just sleep on the couch and then get up the next day and work. Uh, and I did that a lot. And, you know, uh, in the meantime, you know, my wife was pregnant and we had my little girl and she was born with a heart condition and at three, three months old, she had to have open heart surgery. And, um, I've told this story several times on other podcasts, but this is the reason why I started the company because I was back and forth a lot of times and it was scared, you know, like, uh, what was it?

06:04 Josh Fleenor

You know, I needed that push to make that leak, you know, I was comfortable where I was at, but I was, it wasn't sustainable over time, not the way I am. Not the way I mean, I could have definitely backed off the gas a bit, but not the way I operate.

06:19 Josh Fleenor

So I'm holding her for the first time after open heart surgery. It was two days after her heart surgery, they finally said, dad, you can hold, hold your, hold your little girl. And I held her and, you know, I was off work. Uh, you know, I was, you know, dealing with this and I took my work phone with me because that's how attached I was to all of this and I'm holding my little girl and my phone vibrates in my pocket and I, my first instinct was to set her down and I went to set her down. I went, whoa, I have my priorities all out of whack. You know, I had, I had to look in the mirror a little bit and I said, you know, if I'm going to make the, and this wasn't anything on the other company, this was me that I was so attached to all of this that I felt that I had to set her down to deal with that. So I went, you know, if I'm going to do all of this, I'm going to, I'm going to do it for you. You know, I looked down at her and I go, I'm going to do it for you. And I'm going to do it in a way that's healthy where I'm home, but I'm building, you know, so I can have a little bit more of that.

07:23 Josh Fleenor

Uh, I hate to say balance a little bit, you know, things a little bit more in order, honestly. And that's what led to then I just said, all right, I'm going to, I'm going all in. I'm going to take all the risks. I'm going to make this happen.

07:36 Dan Leibrandt

Wow. That's such a powerful story for that to be the origin point. I feel like, cause, cause some people just kind of started a company out of the blue. They don't really know what to expect or just, I don't want to work for anybody, but your, your story is really inspiring. And, um, yeah, I've heard you talk about it on another podcast, but it hit me just as deeply the second time hearing it.

07:56 Josh Fleenor

It's a, it's real, you know, it's like, I hope that she's going to take over this company one day. And yesterday I'm dry. I picked her up before, cause I had to take a red eye out here, but I spent some time with her before I left. And I picked her up and she was telling me about how, um, she's kind of the leader in her little group at school. And she was telling me how she was holding her friends kind of accountable and, uh, setting some boundaries. And I was like, I'm really proud of you for that. And she goes, daddy, I'm like you. I'm like you with my friends. Like you are with your, your team. Yeah. I thought that was so cool. She's watching. So, you know, maybe one day she's going to take over as president of the company, like a plan, but you know, maybe one day she'll just be a ballerina. Who knows?

08:39 Dan Leibrandt

Wow. Wow. That that's so cool. So with the origin of your company, so, okay, you started about said seven and a half years ago or so. And you told me, which was really remarkable. You guys grew, I believe it was to 740 K in the first year. Is that right?

08:58 Josh Fleenor

Yeah. 747 we started in March. So we were waiting for some licensing to go into effect. And then I did, I have a partner and he had started a business and, uh, you know, and he had built it up a tiny bit and I mean, he was doing all right. And then, uh, he had partners and it kind of unraveled. So, uh, they, uh, dissolved the company. So we ended up with some of those clients, not a whole lot of it. So we did have a little bit of a start base. Um, but. You know, I just went to work on LinkedIn back then. It was different than it is now. Now it's saturated with salespeople. But back then, there wasn't a lot of people being creative on there. There wasn't a lot of people like reaching out in creative ways to connect with people. So I just went and connected with everybody I knew, uh, out there.

09:50 Josh Fleenor

And then started reaching out, Hey, do you know this person? Hey, do you know that person? And then I would even send, uh, messages to clients or potential clients in there, like property managers. And I would say, um, Hey, what are some, I'm trying to build a company that's like second to none when it comes to service for property management. It's proper, property management specific. That's what we kind of started outfit focused on. What are some things that vendors have done to wow you over the years? You know, what are some things that really, uh, left a lasting impression to where you went? There's no way that I would move away from doing serve, using this guy as our, as our vendor. And, uh, so many people, they shared a lot of stories, but had a lot of people go, wow, that's amazing that you're even asking that. So they started going, Hey, can you take a look at my property or I'm a regional? Can you take a look at these 10 properties?

10:42 Josh Fleenor

Um, so that started to really snowball and we just, we're just showing people who we were out there. We've always led with heart and we've always, you know, just felt this big purpose behind like serving people. And the, when, when it's authentic, people feel it and they really did. And we just built all these great connections and then there were furnace other people and other people. And then we went boots to the ground and we just, you know, we were prospecting. We were in your face in a positive way. Like we were popping into offices, uh, leasing offices and showing some personality showing that we care. Um, you know, the market was low back then. Like people were charging very little for, uh, property management, but they also weren't getting results. And we saw that we had a lot of people moving in from the Bay Area. Rants were going way up, way up in the Sacramento area. So we started connecting that like, Hey, if this unit's vacant, how much are you losing if it's still, if it has roaches, it's vacant because it has roaches. What if we come in and we solve the problem and we guarantee it and you can rent that unit and you know, you give us a deadline.

11:48 Josh Fleenor

We're going to meet it. And we got a reputation for that and it just kept growing and growing. So we could charge more and more and more. And we came in aggressive. We're vacuuming up roaches. You know, we're bringing in a team, you know, like we were, we were very, very thorough cause we knew we had to really make our mark right there. And then we built a name off of that. And we still have those relationships to this day. Now we have, you know, well over a thousand multifamily properties on service. Um, but then it grew into other things. Like now, so we had no marketing budget in the beginning. We started with barely anything and a couple of trucks. And as we started to build up a marketing budget now, Hey, we can use this. So we can start testing the water with Yelp and some other things. Um, which I was a part of building the Yelp program at the previous company I was at. Um, and I fought them a lot to like, Hey, we need to go into Yelp. I'm re reverse engineering things on, uh, on the computer constantly.

12:45 Josh Fleenor

And other people's computers. So because, you know, your computer starts to tell you what you want to hear. Um, and I'd grab people's phones and I'd look pest control near me. And you know, I'd, and Yelp was so prevalent in the Bay Area that we just piled into it and it was a good time for Yelp to before a lot of changes. Um, so I was like, well, we're going to do some things like that. Now that we have some money to do it. Well, Sacramento Yelp didn't respond real well. And now they're sending it out to six different companies instead of you being the primary. Um, so I had to make some adjustments and. We, uh, we had this marketing budget. So we go, you know, we're going to multi-family has done really well for us. So we're just going to double down on it. We're going to do all these, these fairs. We're going to do all these shows and we're going to do all these events. And then COVID hit, you know, you can't get for anybody. And it's a ghost town on LinkedIn now. So we go, we have this bucket, uh, for marketing, but we also don't know if people are going to be sending checks.

13:44 Josh Fleenor

We don't know if we're going to be able to pay our employees or whatever, but we kind of shifted into Google at the time. That's when Google really started to pick up and I looked around and there wasn't a lot of people that had a lot of five star reviews on Google as you know, a hundred was really good back then. So we go, you know, we have enough of a client base. If we just ask everybody to leave a review, you know, we can, we can be over a hundred pretty easily. So, and we sailed over that and then we just kept putting a focus on that five star service. We were already providing it. So why not ask? And it took off. And then we were like the number one five star review company in the area on Google. And our phones were ringing off the hook, even organically. And then we start spending on pay-per-click and start ringing on. And then, you know, people start catching up because they see what you're doing. And they copy it. I mean, which they should, you know, uh, when I used to coach high school basketball, uh, I always said like a great coach is a great thief, you know, if somebody beats you with some play or some defensive scheme, steal that and make that your own and put it back on, on, you know, other people later.

14:50 Josh Fleenor

And that's how you're going to get wins. But same thing. Everybody's looking at each other like, Hey, what are they doing? What's working over there? But, you know, we started having a lot of success with that. And then we started to build a sales team and, you know, slow. It was like a residential sales team that eventually became a commercial sales team. And then we filled in new residential guys. The residential guys converted to commercial and we started targeting school districts and now we're targeting third party audited accounts. And I brought a team in for that. I got a really high level guy to build our, our third party audited program. So it's just been phase after phase after phase. And it's been the same thing with marketing. It's, you know, it was guerrilla in the beginning of, you know, barbaric on that round and then we get some money and we go, okay, click on pay-per-click social media, all these things. We're doing billboards. We're doing commercials. We're sponsoring the Sacramento Kings. We're sponsoring Sac State football. But in Sacramento, you see us all over the place. So we're just building that. We're just slowly, just increasing pace, increasing pace.

15:55 Dan Leibrandt

Interesting. Okay. So it kind of started out like word of mouth, also relationship building, making sure you're getting your name out there on the ground, then also getting in some and kind of part of that is LinkedIn. Then there's seems like how big was Yelp exactly and your growth?

16:12 Josh Fleenor

Very minimal. Okay. It was bigger in previous company. Like we had a lot of growth with that. And by the time we made that shift, Yelp was kind of declining and Sacramento is a different market than the Bay Area. So I was managing in the Bay Area. It's different. So guys ask me all the time, like, well, what should I be doing in my area? You kind of got to get out there and do some research. Because every market can be different.

16:34 Dan Leibrandt

Yeah. Yeah. I say the same thing as it relates to all paid directories because it can differ. I know some people that are really crushing it with Thumbtack, maybe in North Carolina, then another guy is crushing it with Angi in Portland, Oregon. So like it really depends. Um, so like you said, you really have to do your research, but like you said, I think one thing that is pretty consistent across markets is Google Business Profile and a big part of that is just getting reviews. Like you said, a lot of people will try to say, Oh, well optimize this and that, and yeah, there are like some things to do there, but a huge part of it is reviews and it seems like you guys have unlocked that.

17:10 Josh Fleenor

Yeah. I mean, if people see, most of the people who call in, they say, I've seen all your reviews, your reviews are amazing. And the thing is we have a lot of five star reviews, but I think the more impressive thing and the most, the more difficult thing to prevent is we don't really have one star reviews. We have a couple and they're not legit, you know, and have we got one star reviews in the past? Yes, we have. And they were legit, but that was our opportunity because, you know, they didn't call the office and say, Hey, your guy didn't do this or that or whatever. They just went straight to Google and said, one star review. We, that's our opportunity to show them who we truly are. And we'll do whatever it takes to fix that because that's who we are. We don't, we don't want to leave somebody with a bad taste for, you know, for our company, like we're trying to build something special. So we have to do whatever it takes. I mean, I'll give them their money back. I'll send a gift card and said dinner, whatever. Like we're going to make it right.

18:07 Josh Fleenor

And they're going to love us after this. And they do. Um, so the fact that we don't have all those bad reviews is the, uh, I think the more impressive thing. And that's just a testament to our people and how much they care. I know I talked about our, you asked me, uh, you know, what's our secret? It's our people. It really is. And, um, as we've developed who we are, we act with purpose and, you know, we have these core values, like whatever it takes, love people, commitment to personal growth, genuine connection and giving back. And then we have, uh, you know, the sixth one that we added was intentionality, like act with intentionality, like make this stuff happen, bring it all together. Be intentional in your life and doing all these things. Um, I had a conversation the other day, why I had to let a guy go. And he was fighting a lot of our, our standards, uh, that we have out there. And you know, it's our systems. And yeah, it's more difficult to work for us. It is, um, because of the way we expect our guys to communicate and document things and our, you know, we have processes to make sure everything's in line.

19:10 Josh Fleenor

You know, and I, we were transparent about that when we bring people on. So some people just want it super easy. They just want to sell it, service it, make their money and go. And that isn't this company. And so I'm fighting a guy on following those processes and he's complaining to everybody around him. So everybody I talked to, they're like, I don't even want to answer the phone when he calls cause he's just like, it's, he's impossible. So I'm sitting here, uh, addressing this guy. And I have another guy who one of our directors, one of his really good friends had, uh, had gone through some rough things about 10 years ago. And he got his life back together. He's a single dad. Mom's not in the picture. He became a pastor and, uh, he's just all about his little girl. He's got a little seven year old daughter, my daughter's eight.

20:01 Josh Fleenor

So it was really close to home for me. And we come in and we meet this guy and he's just phenomenal. I mean, he lines up with our core values and he's a, he's passionate about serving people and, you know, everything he does in his life, he works, he don't, it's time at food banks. He helps people who are getting their lives back together, all kinds of stuff. Um, this guy is who we are. And I'm sitting here struggling with a guy that's struggling to follow these standards, and then I got a guy over here. I say, you know, like, Hey, you pass the test. So we lined them up, take the state test. If you pass the test, we'll look at an opportunity director. Who's the friend of him calls me the other in tears. And he goes, man, I just talked to this guy and, uh, he passed his test. And he's all, uh, he's emotional about it. He saw I'm emotional because he tells me he walks out of that testing site and he goes out to his car and he just balls his eyes out because he knows what this means for his little girl, you know, this job, you know, because he's telling him who we are and how well he can do here and how his schedule can be, you know, work around his daughter's schedule because the company he was working for was trying to force him to go out of the area constantly, and he didn't have a lot of help, you know, and he's, he's a single dad with his daughter and he's really, uh, committed to his community and stuff.

21:22 Josh Fleenor

So this aligns with what he's, he has there and he just balled his eyes out. And then I'm sitting there going, man, I'm dealing with this guy who's struggling to follow these simple standards. And I got this guy who was crying in his truck because of this possible opportunity with us. I'm like, I got it. I got to make a decision here. So, you know, we let that guy go and we offer this guy the job. And, uh, and he's a stat. He cries again on the phone. But that's what I want. I'm like, if you can't find your purpose here with what we're doing, that's okay. But go find your purpose somewhere else. It does, you know, but we're not holding you hostage. Like I would feel terrible if somebody worked for me for years and they felt like they were blindly loyal to me, like not realizing that I want them to go. I want them to go somewhere where they're going to find purpose in life and they're going to be happy.

22:14 Josh Fleenor

Um, so, uh, he was unnecessarily being held hostage, I think, because he had some type of loyalty to us and but he struggled with all that. So I don't know. I just, I think about those kinds of things and those lessons that we learn along the way, and it's just like pull from that. And that keeps me motivated. When you, when you surround yourself with people like that, I mean, how can you not be excited to go to work each day? How can you not be excited to build something that builds other people?

22:39 Dan Leibrandt

I feel like being purpose oriented and also having other people like that feels and comes so naturally to you. But I feel like a lot of other pest control owners or even just business owners in general don't operate that way. They're just like, Oh, well people just want a bigger salary or people just want this or that, but really what you're saying is that the core should be to find people that can find their purpose within your company.

23:06 Josh Fleenor

That absolutely is. Yeah. And we pay them well. And I think to a certain point, money is an issue. I grew up poor. So I mean, when you can't pay the light bill or you're not eating that night, you know, money's important. But when you start to get comfortable and all of that's taken care of, you're not living check to check and worried about those kinds of things. You know, an increase doesn't mean so much, but you know, an opportunity to give back an opportunity to serve the community, working with people that you really enjoy working with that align with your values. Um, you know, we don't, we have company events. Everybody's there, you know, everybody's excited to see each other. Um, everybody, you know, most of our guys, they come in and they just hug each other. Uh, we built something based on like vulnerability based trust. So we're willing to be vulnerable with each other and it's making men open up more and more and more. And we have a lot of great women too. They open up very easily, which I love being surrounded by a lot of women.

24:06 Josh Fleenor

You know, especially like my daughter's eight and I want her to be the president of the company one day. So, um, but. I'm, and I naturally connect with women better being raised by a single mom and couple of sisters and all of that. So, um, I have a just great connection with the people in the office.

24:22 Dan Leibrandt

That's awesome, man. Yeah. I want to dive a little bit more tactically into the people in your company. So you've mentioned on and off the show, how critical the people have been in your company to your growth, to your sustainability, first off, how do you find these great people to place in your company and is it they're already that way or do you kind of shape them into that way?

24:47 Josh Fleenor

It's a little bit of everything, honestly. And at first, you know, as you're building your core values and who you are, like you stumble through some of that. Cause you don't necessarily know, but when you start getting a couple of people that hit on those core values completely, uh, A-players hang around A-players and they tend to know other people, whether they're in the industry or not. And to be honest with you, I'd rather bring people in that are fresh to the industry because they only learn it our way because it is different. And I feel like when we bring guys over from other companies, they struggle because it's not the same thing that they had over there and it's intentional. Like we're trying to do something different and we're very transparent about it, but some of those guys will fight it. Some of those guys will fight it for a while and then embrace it. And they're like, Oh man, I should have jumped on this a long time ago. Uh, and then other guys just jump right in and go, all right, got this. But, um, we have, we're intentional in building them up too.

25:40 Josh Fleenor

We have a leadership development program that is for everybody. So every single employee in the company has to, has to take Intro to Leadership. And it's based on leading yourself.

25:50 Dan Leibrandt

That's of course, you guys have.

25:52 Josh Fleenor

Yeah. We created it. Um, I have a, um, a really great director of leadership development. His name's Frank Cropper and, um, he's incredible. Like him and I, this is something I've envisioned for the company a long time ago. When I started the company, I want to, I want to have an, a leadership development program, but I don't want it to just be like, you know, like, Hey, here's a book. And that's it. I need, we need to be more intentional with it. It has to pull things out of people and it has to be based on where they are at their time at that time. So the first thing that we did is Frank and I got together and went, developed the intro leadership program and went, first you got to learn to lead yourself. So we put a series of books together with that. And then he built a whole curriculum around it. And he was a high schooler. He was a teacher for a lot of years. He was a vice principal. He's held a lot of different positions in education. We were very fortunate to get him here.

26:48 Josh Fleenor

He's an incredible teacher. Um, he's charismatic. He's like a motivational speaker. Like this is a guy that you just want to get behind. Um, and he's incredibly intelligent and, um, articulate. So when we have these discussions twice a week for these classes, he's pulling things out of people and he can see it, you know, he'll, he'll target somebody that he knows needs to pull that out. So you'll get people at the beginning of these courses that don't want to raise their hand or aren't willing to share, or they're nervous about it. And by the end, they are sharing at such a high level. It's incredible. It's like, you're seeing things come out of these people. They were like, wow. I mean, I knew they had some things in them, but I don't, I mean, that seems like it's starting to exceed that. Um, and then that just builds the base to Leadership One. So not everybody takes Leadership One. Those are the people that we're looking at, like future leaders in the company. Some people don't really, they're, they're fine doing what they're doing.

27:44 Josh Fleenor

Uh, and then, you know, so the group that's going to move up, they're moving to Leadership One and they're, that one's a little bit more designed for early leaders, you know, now that you're starting to lead people, hold people accountable, you know, things like that. Um, and then tying the culture together. And then we have a Leadership Two. That's a little bit more about, uh, it's more for the upper leadership and it's about taking ownership of your department and getting that out of your team and how to, how to build this accountability system with your team. And it just expands and expands from there. Um, and it isn't just books. We're getting into videos. We're getting into, um, you know, we're having them listen to podcasts, specific podcasts. We have them reading some specific articles and we even talked about, um, doing pro so we have a culminating project at the end of each, uh, there's three in each class, but we're talking about just having, you know, like a master's program to where it's only taking specific things in the company that need to be addressed and you assign a specific team and that's that leadership program right there.

28:49 Josh Fleenor

And they're working through it and they have our leadership development coach and myself stepping in there to help guide them so we can solve complex problems with the company. When we're moving like fast, like we are, we played fast and loose early on and we started tightening things up a little bit, but we have a lot of efficiencies that we need to develop within the company to get to that next level.

29:09 Dan Leibrandt

Huh. Okay. So that's definitely a key player at your company. How did you find him? Did I miss that? Or...

29:16 Josh Fleenor

So, uh, I have twin cousins that work for me and one of them is my director of service operations and he didn't get that job because he's my brother, but he's my brother. And he's my brother because I mean, I saw the capabilities in him and he's grown into that role and then his brother is an area manager for us and, uh, he's incredible too. Um, they grew up with this guy. So they're posting so much on social media all the time about us and what we're about and all that. And he's seeing that. And at first it's funny because he told me, he goes, man, I looked at them on, uh, social media. I go, man, they're in pest control. They fell on hard times, but now. The, uh, one of them's his boss, you know, so they brought him in to meet with me and they're like, man, I, you know, like, you got to meet this guy. It's, we were just meeting his friends at first and, uh, he's like, he got to meet him, he's a lot like you and in a lot of ways and, you know, he reads a lot, you know, he's very motivational, all of that.

30:15 Josh Fleenor

So we met and we talked, we talked and talked and, uh, you know, he wanted opportunity with us like boots on the ground. You want to see what we were about. Um, so taking a bit of a step back for that. And my thought is this is the guy told him what my plan was for leadership development program. And I, in my mind, I didn't tell him, I go, it's his to lose, you know, and this is going to happen sooner than I thought. I thought it was further down the line when we could actually take the resources to put it there. So we did it a lot earlier than we planned. Uh, he was out in the field for six months, then he went into sales. And then by the year mark, he was full on leadership development. Uh, and one of the best moves we've ever made, you know, he's really, he's really brought a lot of growth out of the team and it's gotten people to open up. And the, you know, our core values have never been stronger.

31:10 Josh Fleenor

Uh, you know, the purpose that you see in each person, you know, and how they operate every day, it's never been this high. So it's, you know, it's being intentional and pulling that out of people and inspiring it.

31:24 Dan Leibrandt

Okay. So we found you guys on social media somehow. Yeah. Your twin cousins had some affiliation. Um, but, and I wanted to touch on this. I don't think I have any, I've asked any of my guests this before, but we know, and you just mentioned pest control is in like a very sexy industry and he was even saying like, dang, you know, that's, it's kind of tough for you guys here in pest control. How did you make that mindset shift for him? How did you show him that pest control is actually great? And he should be a part of this.

31:53 Josh Fleenor

Uh, I just, we just showed him under the hood, I guess, like he came in. We talked for a long time. I think he was in my office for an hour and a half. And, uh, he just, yeah, he had been watching, you know, a lot of the stuff they were posting. And once we, once we connected, I think he was just ready to, he was ready to jump into this.

32:16 Dan Leibrandt

So he understood pretty quickly. He's like, okay, this it's more than just pest.

32:20 Josh Fleenor

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I went through that. Like I, there was a, you know, I fell into pest control and for a long time I was like, wow, this is it for me. And I was kind of, I went through a funk for a while and I had a bad year. I had a bad year. I wasn't the best employee, honestly. And I was going through a lot of things in my head. I was going through a lot of things in life and I was like, I, this is it. I mean, I was going to be a firefighter at one point.

32:45 Josh Fleenor

I was going to be, you know, a bunch of different things, you know, that were, that I saw as a much more respectable than, than pest control. And then I went, and I'm actually good at this and I really do enjoy it. So if I go both feet in, you know, like I probably do something with this. And it's when I went both feet in, like everything changed for me. Everything I got promoted, I got promoted again, you know, I was having all this success building people, I was put in positions where I got to really, really grow because I was kind of thrown out there to just make it happen. And I had to figure all these things out and it just like opened up the floodgates for growth for me. And that's, you know, and then it spiraled into, it led to this, you know, now I have this company that I couldn't imagine not having this. You know, I couldn't imagine not doing this every day and building these people up. And every time I look around at my entire team, I go, I go, Oh, we're supporting not many families and we're changing people's lives.

33:49 Josh Fleenor

Like we're really changing people's lives. Cause I get it all the time. Like I sort of like, man, this is the most I've ever made this happiest I've ever been at work. This is, you know, I got to buy my first house. I'm, you know, taking this vacation and those are things that they didn't have before.

34:05 Dan Leibrandt

That's so awesome, man. I know. And it truly is impactful. I know people will say, Oh, well, it's just pest control or, you know, it's just the business, but truly you are impacting many lives and maybe that's even just, could just be 10 people could just, maybe someone just has three employees. But you're still drastically impacting those three lives, those 10 or those 50, whatever it may be. So, um, it definitely can't be understated. And something else I wanted to ask kind of related to what you're saying as an employee, you had a rough year. Talk to me then about, about the past seven years or so with your company would have been some of the biggest hardships or struggles. What would have been like some of the, some of the key moments that were really tough to get.

34:48 Josh Fleenor

And I went through divorce about a year and a half in custody battle. We're amicable now. And we, but it was, it was rough. It was really rough. Uh, you know, I was building this for my family and ultimately it was what led to splitting up. Uh, I, you know, I was, there were some other things that happened that led to that, but, and I was like, where, where do I go from here? And I just talked to a guy the other day, he was a year and a half in business, he's got a three year old daughter and he's gone through divorce. And it's pretty nasty. And I said, Hey, I was there too. And he goes, really? And I shared my story and I, and he's, oh, what advice do you have for me? And I was like, just stay focused on what's important. Like you're, you're, you're building. He told me the same thing. He built this for his daughter. I go, then stay focused on your purpose. Build it for your daughter. And when you have your daughter be all there for her.

35:49 Josh Fleenor

And when you don't have her and whether you can control it or not, cause you know, it doesn't always work out where you're 50 50. Um, fortunately for me, it has. When you're, when you don't have her dive into your business and draw and grow that thing and, you know, build the people around you to build the infrastructure so you can take it to the next level so you can create this legacy for your child, like you set out to do. And don't get, don't get caught up in all the things that could go wrong over here or are going wrong, because it's just going to, you're just going to spiral down into, into a terrible place. It's going to pull you away from what you set out to do.

36:29 Dan Leibrandt

So you got to focus on the good and focus on your purpose. Okay. Got it. And, um, now as we start to kind of wrap up the show here, talk to me about the future of your company. You guys have grown so fast. It seems like you're on a really good track. What are you planning to do in the next few years? What's the plan and what's what are your goals?

36:48 Josh Fleenor

Well, uh, I mean here at PestWorld, I want to get as much information as I can about like AI, because I know that's going to be an incredible, incredibly important piece in the direction of our industry, um, let alone any industry, um, but I want to automate things. I want to become as efficient as possible. Um, I think that we can still have a considerable amount of growth, really focusing, focusing on efficiencies and not being so like barbaric with our growth and not chasing it so much. I want to pull back, which is hard for me to do because I'm very forward thinking and I'm, you know, like I have to chase something. I don't know what it is. It's, uh, if I'm not, I get really bored and that's a bad place for me. Not that I do bad things. I just get, you know, I'll just sit around. I'll just, I'll get in funks and I got to stay focused on that. Um, so I see a considerable amount of growth, but focused on efficiency.

37:48 Josh Fleenor

So starting to develop, I have some layers in my company that I need to spend more time with, like honing that in to where they can serve the company better. Um, I've kind of give them a little bit of freedom and no knock on them. It's a knock on me, honestly, because I didn't, I didn't set the expectations properly. They're doing great based on what I gave them, but I feel like we can get more. And we can, by getting more efficient and they can dive into some of these things, I have some operational support pieces that can really dive into efficiencies in the company. So it's not all on me. And I'm working with them to get that because what I tend to do is I'll let them run around over here while I'm trying to solve this problem over here that they're not even aware of. So pulling the team together, I have to get better at that.

38:33 Dan Leibrandt

So still, even though you're on the outside, still getting a little bit involved in the day to day, making sure that everything is done right. Um, cool. And I've got two more questions for you. First one is what is one of, and you can take this forever. You want pretty general question. What is one of the biggest things you've learned recently? Like what has been fairly impactful in the past year or so, but what does, what has moved the needle and has helped you?

39:00 Josh Fleenor

Um, let us move the company the most.

39:02 Dan Leibrandt

You or the company?

39:04 Josh Fleenor

Uh, shoot me. Um, learning to get out of the way sometimes, I think, because I'm so passionate and so driven to do these things that sometimes I'm trampling over my own team to make that happen and pulling back a little bit and letting them grow and by doing that, you know, not only am I showing trust in them, but I'm also building that trust too. So it works both ways. So I think, uh, I haven't had to be as hands on and everything has gone very well.

39:39 Dan Leibrandt

Nice. Okay. So kind of doing more of that, but just making sure you have, you already have the right people and now you kind of just truly do their thing.

39:47 Josh Fleenor

You got to have the right people first.

39:50 Dan Leibrandt

Can't have bad people and then say,...

39:51 Josh Fleenor

Exactly. So, and I have an incredible team. Uh, and so I have to do a better job getting out of their way sometimes and then leading them where I need to lead them.

39:59 Dan Leibrandt

Cool. Awesome. And as we wrap up here, last question, um, and we'll let you plug whatever you'd like, um, what is your message for other pest control or even home service owners out there, what do you think they need to know? What do you want to tell them?

40:17 Josh Fleenor

Um, it's okay to take risks. You know, the, uh, the reason we're all here, the reason you're an entrepreneur is you took a risk. You bet on yourself. Um, I think we need to be more willing to bet on ourselves more often. And, uh, I think we need to be fair, uh, with ourselves too, because you, we would talk about earlier, um, you know, imposter syndrome. It's like, you've never been there and it's like, Oh, did I get lucky? Um, but at some point you got to look back and look at all your wins and go, okay, I am that guy. And, you know, I Frank again, our leadership development, uh, our director of leadership development told me one day, he's like, Hey, bro, when, uh, are you going to give yourself credit? Because I see you beat yourself up all the time and you have all these wins.

41:06 Josh Fleenor

If you just look back on those wins, you are that guy. So stop questioning yourself.

41:13 Dan Leibrandt

Love that. Okay. So you've got to believe in yourself and you know, something so hard on yourself. Don't think you're in pot, you're an imposter. You can do this and you are going to do this. Awesome. Well, I think it's been a great show. Thank you so much for coming on, Josh. I think this has been awesome. Um, I learned a lot about you and it's been so great connecting with you in person here and learning about your story.

41:37 Josh Fleenor

Yeah, this has been awesome, man. Thank you for the opportunity.

41:39 Dan Leibrandt

Of course. For people to connect with you and stuff, where can they find you on social media online?

41:43 Josh Fleenor

Uh, I'm on Facebook, Instagram under Josh Fleenor. Um, I have a Josh at Pest Pros on Instagram, and then, uh, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn as well.

41:56 Dan Leibrandt

Cool. So all those links will be in the description. Make sure to go follow Josh on every platform and also anything else you'd like to plug or promote.

42:02 Josh Fleenor

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so we were talking about, uh, some causes, you know, for, um, you know, there's a, there's a group called All About Hope and they're based out of Northern California, but we're here in Florida today. They actually have a branch here now. So it was started in Northern California by a nurse whose daughter got tremendously, she got really sick and they couldn't figure out what was going on with her and she, uh, was sitting in ICU with her daughter and she prayed and she said, God, if you, if you heal my daughter, I will make it my life's purpose to impact as many people as possible in these same situations and, uh, the very next day they found what was going on. She's perfectly healthy now. She's an adult and it inspired her to create this All About Hope program. And it's close to home for me because I dealt with my daughter having open heart surgery at three months old.

43:05 Josh Fleenor

This program wouldn't necessarily, uh, help her, but it would help a parent. Um, but an older kid, my daughter went in for also had a, um, sister move that was, that was moved, that was attached herself into a crack in her skull. And it was going in towards her brain and they got that removed. And what we did to distract her while she was healing and stuff is we went through, we were coloring. And so what this lady did is she put together these All About Hope boxes and it's a really colorful box. And if you flip them up out open, you can color the whole inside. It's full of art supplies. It's got some crafting stuff. It's got a book or where they get the design. Like if they were a superhero, what would their superpower be? And then they color, then they draw it and color it and all this stuff. So it's really cool. And it's a really good distraction when kids are in the hospital and, um, it just takes their mind away from all the things that they're dealing with. And it's really powerful.

44:00 Dan Leibrandt

Okay. So it's called All About Hope. Um, so make sure to go check out that charity, maybe even, uh, donate to it. Um, and that link will be in the description below. Um, well, awesome. I think this has been a great show, Josh. Thanks again so much for coming on. I appreciate the time.

44:13 Josh Fleenor

Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, man.

44:14 Dan Leibrandt

Thanks, Josh.

44:15 Josh Fleenor

Appreciate you. All right.